Misinforming!?

[Ment2bee]

What do you mean misinforming?    Show some love for the man with a dream. I was browsing the net looking around with piperin on the mind some time ago and I came across this and I thought it might be appliable to those in the know.

http://www.bioperine.com/Manual/ClinicalStudies1.htm

[Rhodium]

1) You shall not cut drugs.

2) Can you imagine what would happen if someone would decide to snort or inject MDMA mixed with Piperine? Ever gotten black pepper dust in your eye?

3) Piperine is yellow, and that does not look good in an otherwise pristine white product.

[Ment2bee]

1.) Naw man don't look at life so negatively, to me it's the chocolate sauce on the vanilla sunday.

2.) Why they'd think it was laced with 2C-B hydrochloride, what else?

3.) Man it gives the product character, at little somethin' to remeber it by.



Naw I see where you're coming from and all, but 1.) you have to remeber a 110mg MDMA pill isn't purely MDMA to begin with. They're additives to make the thing stick, slip ect. So why not substitute some of the additives with something that'll make it more potent? and then in turn remove some of the MDMA because now it is more potent? And with E less is more after all. 2.) and 3.) I was suggesting piperine as an experimental trial/personal use, but for sale it probably better to go with tetrahydropiperine. I'm speculating here but intuition tells me since techinically piperine has no taste or smell (the chavicine isomer does, which partially forms when piperine comes in contact with a fluid), tetrahydropiperine should also have no taste while at the same time being unable to isomerize (no double bond isomers to form). Second once those double bonds are gone there should be no color as well.

The main reason I suggest piperine/tetrahydropiperine is that it's more natutal and practical than PBO or so, however there is a damm good chance other things will fall into the syngerist field as well.

And finally the main reason I suggest a syngerst in the first place, is knowing that most of any drug one choses to indgest does not even make it to the sweet spot (brain) where we want it but gets distributed throught the body. With E some portion of it gets tied up in the liver, and dies a slow metabolic death in vain of the dear chemists goal. Why not then give the liver something else to play with instead of precious E?

[Rhodium]

People here generally does not press pills, and as long as you aren't, you should not add "other" stuff to the pure material.

Also, there is no proven effect of this material acting synergistically with MDMA anyhow.

[hCiLdOdUeDn]

cmon now, no one wants impure cut shit, plain and simple.
hcildoduedn

[Ment2bee]

Yeah I respect that. The inner circle sort of thing should be kept clean or at least everyone should know what's being used (like a d-MDMA with l-MDA) that sort of thing. But I'm talking clandustry here, big picture thinking. Like McDonalds beef, 75% Bejing times (post consumer) + 25% grade F meat. Don't get me wrong I believe people should know what they are getting. And in a perfect world there'd be bottles of E in the liqour section with a FDA (or BATFE?) lable stating everything that goes in there. But then we have a few (all?) rotten apples in the Bush Restoration Period (2000-?) that wish to spoil such virtues. Of course this leads shortages of the good stuff and oddities such as Viagra tainted E...

Now what's needed is a cheaper way of getting to the good point (as can be seen with the headache meth causes the Restoration leaders), with out sacrificing the quality of experince. Obviously and unfourtionatly it's harder to produce MDMA than it is to produce meth, so it's easier to enforce laws against MDMA than Meth.

With a cheaper MDMA equivilent, brings around more E pills, more E pills means more people on E, more people on E means more headaches for Restoration leaders. And evenutally once 50% of the population has had a great experince with E....... No more DEA!!!!

All is in theory though and assuming the best of cases.

For the time being though they're definitly should be some research into the combined effects of E and piperine or similar compounds. To see if they *fully* mimic the true MDMA experince, or not.

Anyone wanna play Dr Shulgin for a day?

PS speaking of which I inquired him about the subject, lets see if he responds.

[tranceport]

Where is you honor? Where would you want your money to go to? Cut or straight? Be realistic man, its a shitty thing to do period.

[Osmium]

Wow, we got ourselves a real genius here.
I'm not fat just horizontally disproportionate.

[Barium]

Oh no! Is Cyril back?

[GOD]

that was my guess

wheres your pride man?
How can ya feel good about what your doing?

build the stadium...
   and they will come....

Look at the legitimate buisness world, just about anyone at the top of their game (save monopolies) is there because they offer the BEST product or service in the most efficient manner.  Not because they cut corners or sell partial imitations...THEY are what the competition tries to imitate.
"I £ my dog"
-Buddha

[PrimoPyro]

This is one of the largest and most important core values on the Hive, and is one of the only things that is closely agreed upon unanimously: There will be absolutely zero cutting of any psychoactive compound with inactive compounds for the sake of profiteering. The one, and only, acceptable reason to cut a psychoactive substance, is when the psychoactive is so potent that it runs the risk of public overdose. Such a compound is fentanyl.

Common amphetamines and phenethylamines are not to be cut. Period.

Bees are priveliged with information that the public in general does not posess. Bees likewise are held to a higher standard of responsibility because of this knowledge they posess. Bees do not cut common drugs in any circumstance, most especially drugs produced for profiteering.

Threads such as these will often award the poster the prize of being blacklisted amongst bees who might have helped you before. This is not a business related website, and we will not discuss ripping off public consumers for the sake of profit.

PrimoPyro
Will perform sexual favors for females in exchange for 1,2-dimethylaziridine. PM for details.

[Ment2bee]

Ok Ok maybe I shouldn't have used the term *cut*, mixture would be more like it. I mean after all d,l-MDMA is a mixture of two substances, remove one and the effects will differ am I right? Now cutting usually inferes adding an *inert* subtance (well I mean broken glass isn't intiererly inert so to say but it has no pyscoactive properties.....). Piperine on the other hand is more or less inert when takin alone, but it *might* boost the MDMA performance, kinda of like combining nitrous with high octane racing fuel. Now maybe it would be morally wrong (hive morales that is) to combine the two subtances in a single pill. Ok but what about making a pill of each and candy flipping the two? Or combining the synergist with preloading materials and then using it that way?

Also synergist can be used with other drugs as well, think morphine.... Morphine isn't as orally active as it should be because it gets degraded by the liver too quickly, but if morphine where takin with something that would prevent the liver from breaking it down... then this methode of absorbtion might become more common.

Secondly cause all this is underground; it is somewhat incriminating to list what goes in your pills to everyone who purcases them (yes the real world sucks kids). So in this case the best solution would be then to have only the pure universially excepted racemate... And then market the *add-ons* seperatly. Agree?

[GOD]

For the time being though they're definitly should be some research into the combined effects of E and piperine or similar compounds. To see if they *fully* mimic the true MDMA experince, or not.


So I guess YOU have your work cut out for you then.  Dont ya think its rather unethical to test unwitting customers?  How would you feel if you found out the government had covertly tested some strange medication that effects your liver on you when you were eating your icecream?  You wouldnt give a fuck if they where doing it to end the WOD or not- youd probably want blood- or alot of money.
  You are going to end up hurting alot of people, and ultimatly yourself with that mentality.


"I £ my dog"
-Buddha

[Ment2bee]

I NEVER STATED TESTING such a thing on unwitting costumers. Cause I did not mention something doesn't mean I'm implying something!!

Yes I believe it is unethical to test things out on unwitting customers. And yes the goverment did test out shit out on unknowing people, and I wouldn't want that to happen to me.

I believe that synergists are quite possibly the way of the future for the whole of pharmacology, recreational and otherwise. And I believe given the fact that there lies a potential of there use to augment pharmacuteicals such use warrents further investegation. Triple-blind? studies and the like. People when they sign up for these studies would know what they where getting into. Either "d,l-MDMA" or "d,l-MDMA with piperine" or "placebo". And would know all the apparent dangers as well. Then the experiences are compared. This is the only real way to do this. And this is what I mean by further research.

[Rhodium]

I've been dreaming some dreams, thinking about things and it occured to me... Since a lot of god damm E gets cut, then if one wants to cut why not cut it with a synergist? Like the way that insceticide perithin gets mixed with PBO. E is rather similar to PBO so that perhaps 80 mg of E mixed with 50 mg of PBO might make for 110 mg of pure E. But PBO looks hepatoxic, so I'm speculating something like piperin or tetrahydropiperin to be more exceptable.

I don't think this sounds like you were suggesting to conduct "informed consent" trials with the stuff. Do you?

[PrimoPyro]

You talk about synergism and adding compounds to increase the effects of the MDMA.

I know of one compound that does this incredibly well with MDMA, and I'll share it with you. It has perfect synergism with MDMA, and increases the potency of ANY MDMA containing drug. It is perfect to cut MDMA with. Wanna know what it is?

More MDMA.

Its the only ethical compound to add to MDMA. So if you want a better effect, add some MDMA to your MDMA and I guarantee you will get a more pronounced effect.

PrimoPyro
Will perform sexual favors for females in exchange for 1,2-dimethylaziridine. PM for details.

[hCiLdOdUeDn]

right on!
hcildoduedn

[Precursor2112]

[Acme]

Would mixing the goods with 5-HTP be good or bad,
I mean as long as enuff stuff off the cuff, can adding ye olde serotonin precursor be cast in a positive light?

[Rhodium]

Give your friends two capsules instead, one with MDMA and one with 5-HTP.

The benefits of 5-HTP supplements in connection with MDMA has been discussed before, UTFSE.