Author Topic: Bad wacker  (Read 2710 times)

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edo

  • Guest
Bad wacker
« on: May 06, 2004, 04:47:00 AM »
Swim tried to do MM benzo wacker but failed.  :(

Swim mixed 2g of PdCl2+400ml MeOH for a hour.
Added 150g benzo + 50ml dH2O stir for another hour.
Dripped 178g safrole over 1 1/2 hour.
Refluxed for 3 hours(then turned off heat)stirred for 8 more hours(went to bed)

Flooded with 1150ml H2O + 500ml HCL. Extract with DCM(500ml,250ml,100ml)
Washed with 2x500ml Bicarb,2x500ml 10%NaOH,2xH2O
Dried with 50g MgSo4
Distilled off DCM, Vac Distill.

When Vac distilling swim got over 105g of safrole back.
Swim doesnt know why. Can some one tell swim where he went wrong?

thanks

BieneMaya

  • Guest
some questions
« Reply #1 on: May 06, 2004, 05:05:00 PM »
From where do you have your chems?
labgrade, selfmade Benzo?
What about your PdCl2?

Was it your first time you attempted this?
If so why did you not scale it down?
Swim tried his first trial with 1/4.

But anyway this makes no difference .
So at which temp did your safrole come over?
Have you made foreruns?

MM writup calls for 8 hours stirring AND refluxing.
Why did you only reflux for 3hours?

edo

  • Guest
The chems are photo grade but swim had success
« Reply #2 on: May 06, 2004, 11:43:00 PM »
The chems are photo grade but swim had success making ketone already(and mdma)from same supplier.
Safrole came over the usually 117C under vac
Swim read its ok to reflux for only 3 hours

Post 40931 (missing)

(Methyl_Man: "Time-streamlined benzo wacker experiment a success", Methods Discourse)

Swim is really bummed out. Cant figure out where he went wrong.(and swim is going to dump his chubby millionaire g/f today....
>:(

When u think things cant get any worse the do.

Swim fucks up alot and ask alot of stupid questions.
Swim really does appreciate the help
Thanks  :)


ps. how come the hive is in black and gray?
How does swim change it back to yellow

BieneMaya

  • Guest
Did you have absolutly no ketone coming over...
« Reply #3 on: May 07, 2004, 01:55:00 AM »
Did you have absolutly no ketone coming over after
your safrole fraction? Or even some other shit?

Can´t imagine that nothing has converted.
The setup was right, chemicals too.
No clue what went wrong....

edo

  • Guest
Swim gave up distilling when temps went over...
« Reply #4 on: May 07, 2004, 05:40:00 AM »
Swim gave up distilling when temps went over 160c.

Swim is trying again. Hopefully with better results

thx for ur time  :)  k+

OcoteaCymbarum

  • Guest
Please provide us with more details
« Reply #5 on: May 08, 2004, 03:52:00 AM »
And I wouldnt just re-do something before you can at least have an idea about what happened. What happen if you make the same mistake? This procedure is foolproof, even for a first timer, so there must be a reason.

Whas everything the same as the previous runs? The color? The temperature changes? The work-up? If the solution got hot, then it means something reacted and you cant get all safrole back. Since the solution gets in the 60 degres, you can tell something's going on. A bit more details would probably lead to good hypotheses

edo

  • Guest
Swim thinks major factor for his fuckups is he
« Reply #6 on: May 11, 2004, 06:05:00 AM »
Swim thinks major factor for his fuckups is he does midnight wackers.(all tired and shit).

Swim got planty of rest and currently is distilling ketone.After not seeing it for weeks.. it's a beautiful site   8) .

Swim is always worried its bad ketone.The ketone is very pale yellow. Prior ketone was more bright/neon looking. This looks like re-distilled ketone.


Swim would like to thanks you all for help
Have a nice day !

homeslice

  • Guest
sounds similar to a problem swim had
« Reply #7 on: May 11, 2004, 06:34:00 AM »
Sounds awfully similar to this dream i had.
Its a lil lengthy but take a look if ya want. The tone was pale yellow like ya said.

Post 490417

(homeslice: "Odd ketone color, wacker was different then last", Newbee Forum)

In a follow up to the post, the subsequent al/hg was a complete failure with the pale yellow tone.


edo

  • Guest
Swim used ketone and followed:(1/2 batch)...
« Reply #8 on: May 12, 2004, 07:37:00 AM »
Swim used ketone and followed:(1/2 batch)
Procedure
Mixed 66.8g MeAm with 67mL H2O. Mixed 39.6g NaOH with 119g (119mL) H2O, and cooled in ice bath.
Set up equipment (1l rbf+condenser on top), started cooling, added stir bar. Put 26.7g Al foil in RBF. Added most of the 420mL MeOH to the RBF, saving about 50mL to wash out the ketone container. About 140mg of HgCl2 was then added to the RBF and the whole flask was swirled to mix the HgCl2 into the MeOH. Once the MeOH started bubbling , the cool NaOH solution was slowly poured into the MeAm solution. The smell of MeAm gas was now very strong. The basified MeAm solution, and the 53.4g ketone were then poured into the RBF. The remaining MeOH was swirled in the ketone flask and added to the RBF, and the whole flask was swirled a few times to mix everything. This reaction is nowhere near as exothermic as a Methyl Man Al/Hg Nitromethane. Stirring was attempted, but meybe your bar would not move, probably due to the Al foil weighing it down. During the reflux the solution was bubbling quite well, but was still diligently swirled a couple times every five minutes (if stirbar will not work). After the reflux subsided, the flask was swirled approximately every 15 minutes. When a top layer of clear fluid started forming, that means it's time to swirl. The temperature rose quickly to about 72°C with lots of foil floating on the top, and lots of bubbles were evolving, but it stayed in control (if using thick foil, you may need some heat to kickin the reaction). This is with all the ketone added at once. The reaction was left to run for 4.5 hours, and began to calm down after about 45 minutes from the addition of the ketone. When it calms down a bit, prepare the basification solution (230g 85% KOH added to 469mL dH2O) to give it time to cool. Heat was added to the RBF after about 75 minutes to get the temperature up to about 65°C. Once the reaction is deemed finished, (there isn't really an indicator to look for, just when enough time has elapsed) strain/filter out any unreacted foil chunks. The foil in the strainer was rinsed with about 50mL H2O which was added to the reaction contents in a 2L beaker. The mixture was slowly basified by pouring the KOH solution into reaction contents, and was stirred on a stirrer for about 10 minutes. Some bubbling was observed as any remaining foil was reduced. The mixture was extracted with 1x 500mL, 1x 200mL fresh toluene by pouring the toluene into the beaker and continuing stirring. After separating the extractions were combined. The toluene started out clear, water-white, and after the extractions was slightly cloudy and slightly coloured. The combined toluene extracts were washed with 3x 700mL dH2O, 1x 700mL brine (saturated NaCl). Most of the cloudiness cleared up after the washes. (I do an A/B here but some exclude it)The toluene was dried in 40g dried MgSO4 for 10 minutes. The toluene was then gassed, and filtered 4 times. Even though the crystals were as white as has been ever seen, the crystals were put into some boiling acetone and filtered again. Total yield after acetone cleaning: 92.4% (w/w)!!!

not sure who wrote it but you the man!
After gassing swim ended up with 18.3g of white crystal
& 3.1g of less white crystal.
  8)   total 21.4g   8)

Swim will wash crystals in hot acteone.

Thx u Methlab bee who shared this info with swim
;D