Super High Potentcy Push/Pull dope

[wareami]

These are some try-umph-ant dazes at the Hive and jubilant ones to boot! To have the MethGodz all rapped up in one thread, methodically analyzing a route that has proven superior to the conventional wayz handed down, is a sight to beehold! It demonstrates the versatility and open-mindedness that is essential in this areana! Ibee often regretted not being around during the early daze to partake in discussions such as this! The when the chance exposes itself, HDD's start frying themselves right and left! That's okay...if the kidz need to hotwire a modem to a typewriter...Wild horses couldn't drag him away!
Geez has a much better way with wordz that Ibee does and he alwayz means what he sayz! That's Cool! What's better still is his openmindedness in exploring new ideas proposed!
Worlock: The Kidz ain't the best at Art-tickle ate'ing what they see, but they try! For instance....Ibee dug UP some old posts that kinda sum UP some findings from the Kidz points of view regarding the long reflux! These posts were attempts to get bees to head off in this direction as it had produced a rare breed of Gear for them.

Post 260505 (missing)

(wareami: "Re: Let's try this again, but in the right forum:", Stimulants)

Post 276696 (missing)

(wareami: "Re: SWIM isn't shitting!  This really happened.", Newbee Forum)

Post 383732

(wareami: "Old Dawgs...New Tricks!!!", Stimulants)
Now, in regards to the sevenday cook, Zib and Ballz have also inquired and have been patiently waiting...so here goes!
But first...Worlock mentioned sodium thiosulfate. Ibees experiece is that when he utilizes it to clear the yellow(or orange depending on concentration), in the post rxn filtrate, he winds up with clear crystals as the end result, with no rextalation or acetone wash following the work-up. When he doesn't use Na₂S₂O₃•5H₂O, he'll wind up with White Xstals(yellowish tint if over acidified). Tone wash will rid the yellow, but the White color stays! Ibee doesn't like Overacidifying because he doesn't like re-collecting the gear from the tone later. With short cook times...there is no way Ibee would trust the quality or cleanliness without tone washing! He has no problem using gear as is after a long-reflux. His mindset is at a consistant 48hour at 140-160F°. He use to use h2o and heat to bring on phase II! Now he uses h2o throughout the process and just waits it out! Ibee always sees signs of the conversion left on the flask, even if he isn't around to witness it taking place!
Those seven day cooks weren't benefits, per se. Unless one looks on the bright side and uses Ibees experience as a guidepost to "Don't GO there". Because after that time, Ibee thought all would be good to GO and proceeded with the work-up to find ~70% p-fed in the mix. The smell wasn't there either. Not like it had been at day five! From day five to day seven...let's just say that Ibee was being greedy in trying to achieve higher octane! If two daze is great and 5 daze was the greatest...would 7 be the greatestest? Well no!!!
Ibee can't say for sure if a reconversion took place or not. But what appeared to be a finished product at day five turned out to be a dud at day seven...it left this bee wondering! Maybe it was the addition of impurities as Clean rerun red P was used! Who Knows!
Ibee repeated this again like a fool! But he had to know! Same amount 3g E 3g RP and 4.5 I₂.
Same result! Day seven a sample was pulled and the same exact result was worked-up. Okay now what? Recover....right? Wrong!!! Day sixteen was all the torture Ibee could take! He added a shitload of aluminum, some more rerun red, some I₂ and cranked UP the Heat.
Very substandard gear with p-fed present and a reminder to never go there again!
Ibee doesn't have the heart (or the hair) to repeat this scenario! Maybe there was a variable that was overlooked and Ibee can't analyze scientifically what exactly happened and where the GO went, but his only explanation is that a re-conversion took place sometime after day five on both samples!
Sorry for the lengthyness...
Hope this sheds some light!
Peace of the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE

[Worlock]

The Theory was proposed regardibg the availability of  The racemic forms of Ephedrine,

The conditions  had already been proposed that a slow cooler reaction might take advantage oe this E, instead of leaving it unreacted or allowing it to  form L- Meth.

A method was devised that would neet the conditions.
Results of previous reactions have been suppoetive of the plan
The first few pilot runs have been favorable,

And you say we are mystical and not scientific.

You are full of it, That is your opinion and it has no basis in fact.
Run the reaction  yourself ,then you can say what you want, Until then you are just  making up stories, and slinging crap,
 
Didn't your daddy beat you for telling lies?.

It won't be long before it is  well established

You said the one hour reaction was impossible too.
Go back where you are appreciated , and  tell your stories  to someone who gives a shit.

[mr_pyrex]

Well I know this thread isn't the ideal place to post this but I am short on time and since I don't frequent the hive as much as I used to I am not fully aware of all the details, but Worlock I must say it is nice to hear from you once again.  I mean the few people I spoke with kept speaking of you in the past tense and would not explain why...it bothered me not to know why they did this...but at least now it looks as if they were mistaken...which I am glad to hear.  Well I'll bee round now and then...again nice to hear from you.  Pyrex out

[Ed_Bullwinkle]

Really though,

with clean PC's and patients, the NANO can be done with a 'coffee maker', jar, hose & baloon !!

Nice !

[zibarium]

and have already taken flak defending what it is you are promoting...and i don't mean speed...i mean the longer; wetter; less hot rxn.  the boring one; that zib spoke of over a year ago...that one that showed none of the classical signs...the pushing; pulling; b.s. misinterpretations of obvious vol/pressure...
and that same dipshit bee went to the wall to ask you all to not fall prey to the meth-god crap...and to not allow it to skewer your data.


beyond that, insults are a bit shamefull

i kill god

that's my job

any of you that don't want to bee killed?

don't play god





how many times do we have to bee wrong beefore we gain a trace of humility?

[Worlock]

I am not sure what it is he is saying, Maybe after some sleep the mysticism will wear off,
Amazing what a few good hours of sack time will do for ones outlook,


I used to be a "Hammer" also, in a previous Cyber life,
It was a good nym
My Hammer persona mutated into "The Claw"

I coulda been a
Ballpeen, a jack , or a sledge but no had to be a Claw.

[Worlock]

Once the ephedrine becomes meth by loosing the oxygen, tt part of the reaction is not reversable, with the "O" gone  and no "I" or double bond, in its place that spot on the molecule is fairly Unreactive 

THe next hot spot would be one of the "N-C" bonds, and after that whatever was on the end of the chain or part of the ring depending on what the conditions were.

THe timing of the reaction has become a stickler because the aigns are not coinciding exactly with the end point of the reaction, there seems to be a eight hour period where the color says it is done but it still may need additional cooking.

 If it is cooked overly long then it appears that the molecule can either join with another at the nitrogens or begin to fall apart with a damaged aromatic ring  or the damaged rings hook together,

What is looking like the answer to be investigated is once the reaction takes on the signs of being complete to run it another 4 four hours  just to be sure
or flood it and reflux for 12 hours

The one thing I can say for certain is to not cook it for 12 hours in its dry or concentrated state , even at a lower temperature, because the yield suffers , you can be sure it is done.

The end point , escapes me how to pin it down
One way might be to add a drop of peroxide to see how much I- ion is still present, but that  may just always be present
it is not convieient  to process and bioassay a sample each time , the bioassay is so subjective , that it takes nultiple trials to be accurate
 The only thing that is a for certain is the M. P. or polarimeter
UNless you can rub an infrared spect or NMR on it.



Does anyone know if the Screen on an LCD Monitor is polarized or it it just LED  display screens that are polarized

[wareami]

Okay Back on Topic!
The Kidz are pretty much set in there ways. And new proposals rarely come with a set of sure-fire guarantees! The variables are too numerous to avoid interjecting one's own technique or methodology. We all tend to "go with what we know". In that "one dimensional" thinking, we also tend to dismiss, sometimes unintentionally, following suggestions to the letter and exactly as outlined! We become set in our ways! Some things leave no room for deviation! For christ's sake, in most cases, we are trying to describe procedures and principals that could fill a book! And trying to convey these things in 1000 words or less leaves many voids and avenues open to the interpretation of the reader! I know for a fact that I won't interpret a write-up the same as any of you! Pre-conceived notions often become a fault resulting in a slight, but critical miscalculation, in the application of such proposals! Jacked provided us with an excellent example when describing the steps and processes employed in attempting the Long Reflux. He also took it a step further and openmindedly admitted that his miscalculation resided in the fact that the proposed guidelines didn't jive with his practice and experience and also was man enough to set aside his past experiences and re-stab at it with an open mind! That takes HUGE balls considering how long he's been at it! Worlock had done the same when bees proposed a refinement could reduce p-fed in an HI/RP synth that would yield a greater percentage of d-meth thus producing a more potent end result! All this shit made sense to Ibee from the word GO, but Ibee didn't know how to explain or convey it to others! Ibee is no more a chemist than pHarmacist is a test strip schooled in the art of apothecary working at the R_X Store
Massive amounts of time, energy and work go into the preparation H<^__ I/RP synth and noone wants to be left holding a bagfull of shit for their troubles!
Many would rather completely dismiss some proposals as being Hogwash without even attempting the proposed. They make no bones about showing how ingrained their level of denial is either!
The long reflux has had Ibee's stamp of approval for a solid year and it is failsafe, for the newest of newbees as long as they use clean precursors and clean starter feed!
Worlock and Jacked are constantly refining as is Geez, Ibee, and the other notable Do-Bees that offer their advice, suggestions and findings!
Ibee guarantees that all bees willing to set aside their preducices and pre-conceived notions who try the long reflux proposed here, will not walk away the worse for wear or disappointed!
The worst case scenario is cushioned and can still be recovered from with the addition of heat!
It's idiot proof and Ibee is the best idiot here! He Does Not Fail, unless he's trying to 1up his own idiocy to head ya'll off at the pass!
Giving back to the collective is what proves your worth and defines true gratitude.
The credibility of fact will stand on it's own!
Peace of the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE

[ballzofsteel]

Wareami,aint it a cold push/pull?

[zibarium]

not from lack of sleep, however.

zib's trouble w/ this is all about the subjectivity of the bio-assay...which is very, very far from double blind.

just worried that an entire new science was trying to emerge from the subjectivity.

zib's experience has shown him; several times, that the very same gear; excellent gear; will vary in effects exactly as is described in these tales of two meths.

its not me going mystical here.
i was responding to the mystics.

ignore me

[ballzofsteel]

-zib's experience has shown him; several times, that the very same gear; excellent gear; will vary in effects

Especially when doses are taken in succession through the duration of the cook.

[simonsays7]

I agree with Zib in part.  We are our own means to test the purity of the cook.  We are the best and can be the worst judges for that. 

Great to have you back Worlock.  Have you read any of the arguments that were posed by 12345x regarding whats going on in the reaction?

[wareami]

Yes Ballz....my bad....you are correct...Ibee would also be wrong in calling it a "COOK", I suppose. This demonstrates my inability to effectively get my point across in addition to my hardheadedness/preconceived notionness! Any process that utilizes the necessary time to more completely reduce p-fed which yields a greater percentage of d-meth thereby reducing the amount of impurities and l-meth or unreacted p-fed, for lack of a better term, Ibee refers to as a "Long Reflux"
....mistakenly!
Sorry!
It's not really a cold method either as the rxn is exothermic and creates it's own heat!
Ibee will now attach himself to the whipping post and figure out from there how to administer his punishment!
Peace of the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE

 

[MnkyBoy78]

Ware...Allow SWIM to assist you in the art of "Self punishment and Reform your thinking through pain".

This procedure was once again tried by SWIM, implimenting H₂PO₂ ~ 80% concentration inplace of rp.  No heat at all was added as the rxn began with the rb still in ice water.  RB vessel was stoppered and placed near a base board heater and covered with a blanket.  Temp was monitored with a Fluke 50D digital thermometer.  Temp varied from 78 F (min) to 86 F (max). At t + 12 hrs, the contents were a (pale) yellowish color.  At t + 52 hrs, the contents were clear w/ only a slight hint of yellow.

Will report back for SWIM after the full 96 hrs is completed.

[Organikum]

H3PO4 - phosphoric acid is what you are looking for. Add phosphoric to the starting mixture, how much depends on the quality of your gear but it´s not critical like water. This is the inert to the reaction, high boiling, heat mediating and HI dispersing fluid you are after.


this is not a guess
ORG

[Worlock]

I agree the Bioassay is very subjective and the same persom will obtain different results at different times.
 For that reason it is good to keep am open mind and read different authors,
It takes at least three separate trials on any product to begin to accurately describe it.

This synthesis was  a learning process for me , I  tell what I discover, If it were bad idea, I would have dropped it and moved on
however
This procedure works, it works better than expected. it appears to be  better than the old method. It is not for everyone, It is not mandatory that everyone switch
 Bees are going to give it a try, in their own good time and they will decide for themselves no matter what someone else clains .
In doing so they will toss me a bone, more data and information.

Now if you posted your methodology and results, your opinion would be highly valued. 
however you have not expended any energy or put any effort into this,
So your opinions were noted, nothing more needed to be said.
 
I do apologise for the insults, I shot in your direction, they were uncalled for and I am proud of my attitude.

[Worlock]

SWIM will give it a try next run, SWIM has some on hand.
What concentration of  phosphoric acid is best so SWIM will  know if he need to hunt for a stronger brand.

Can you give a general idea of how much is commonly used with an oz ephedrine? SWIM I realizes will be referring to the  a standard reflux

By HI dispersion ,do you mean to dilute the solution so there is improved continuous mixing of chemicals.
or
do you meam the formation of 2I-  from I2 is improved
or
both

[zibarium]

an odd thing that zib should sound oppossed to this approach...as he is certainly not.

i love nuance; but felt that conclusions were beeing jumped to based on raw enthusiasm.

i would love to add something of value; hopefully will; until then, my apologies.
(i was pricky all over yesterday; big time back pain)

[Worlock]

Ah-ha very interesting, 
Alphacenturi's friend, "SWI-Alphacenturi" was wondering if that would work, it is good news.

SWIM's dog has a few H₂PO₃ reactions  planned I'll let them know, they are dreaming some E  will  show up, the limiting factor recently.

[Worlock]

I have read most of 12345x's  posts 
I have not read anything in the last 2 weeks
Is there a particular article or thread that you have in mind?
If so I'd like to check it out,