question

[djchaos667]

Now here is an interesting question, Swim took his gf. to the hospital the other day, (she is ok, just in case anyone worried) and he noticed a red container connested to the oxygen hose on the wall with a red cap and red braided hose coming out of it with an attachment for the oxygen lead to go to said patient. Rust wheels began turning in swims head and his gf. could barely hear over the grind. If swim could get some of these contraptions, could he use them for a push pull? He thinks that he could but he wonders if they would withstand the chemicals corrosion, or would he be risking his honey? He is fairly sure that he could use at least one for the distilled water, but would feel better checking with some old masters. Thanx for any help or advice.
Chaos

[xplozivetoyz]

Why go to all that trouble when you can get almost everything you need for free, or at least very cheaply?  Besides, why become a thief over something that insignificant?  Why become a thief at all for that matter? Anyway, why would you risk getting caught stealing something?  Re-think your position.

[djchaos667]

The reason that the rusty wheels began turning was because swims grandmother died of cancer a few years back and his mother has the same piece of equipment in her garage right now. Swim finds theft reprehensable and would never become a thief for any reason he just has one at his disposal and wonders about the aptitude for the push pull process.

[Jacked]

Anything from Gatorade jugs to duse bags will work, All is your doing is bubbling a gas through a liquid. It's not a science project just a gas scruber... Swim even used two long neck bud bottles before with a snaple bottle for a flask. The best thing swim has ever used was two 2L sept funnels, Took very little effort sense they were sitting there anyway..

[SHORTY]

Don't waste time and effort building special setups.  A long wet reflux is much easier, safer and the product is top quality and higher yeilds will be achieved.  Just get yourself a condenser and a flask and your good to go.

[Jacked]

Yeah just forget doing a push pull. Seems only a couple here have gotten it right anyway, (mainly myself and worlock) Most bees jump on a band wagon kissing ass when talking about P/P v reflux maybe because they failed at it to many times,, It would be to your better interests going with the majority because of the help
you would be receiving doing otherwize... Only a few here will help you without a ration of shit intertwined in there responses and I am not always around....

[djchaos667]

I have read Warlocks push pull method diligently and believe that I have gotten what I need from it. I have made notes so that I have somethng to go back on if I do get confused. The way I look at it is if you are afraid to stand on the shoulders of giants you will never see past the trees. I want to get it right, I do appreciate any help that you can offer, and I do understand that you can't be here all the time. At least I will have what you and Warlock have written to help guide me. With luck and patience I will bee able to go down the road less traveled, rather than be another sheep folowing the leader. Thank you for the advice, and please understand that I still plan to prefect the push pull method that you and Warlock have acceived. If it is not too much bother when you have time check back with me and see how I am doing.   
Chaos

[ragnaroekk]

Not tried but succeeded?
If yes and you are able to reproduce it as you like to, go for whatever you like to. Push Pull is for sure interesting (it was the bomb as it came up!).
If no, start with the so called wet reflux please. Also I believe this being very hard to fuckup it is fucked up regualary by beginners. It seems to be still hard enough so if you are not masochistic orientated - go the more easy way first. The PP was born in times aquisition of ephedrine (not pfed) and RP and all was much easier as now. Much has changed and most got worse.

Jacked, THe PP had its time (and it ruled quite long!) and the changed situation now prefers the reflux as it seems. Better? Better adapted on the circumstances not more. There is only one thing what counts: the product.
And when the younger ones now push THEIR method - remember if not once it was the same the other way round?  Oh yeah it was!  

And dichaos: If you want to do the PP get some gatoradebottles and do it. Forget this oxygen or whateverbottle stuff. Don´t think and don´t screw but act. Btw. it is by no way forbidden to try both ways. Just put aside the construction kit and get a flask.

[CainTwister]

Just put aside the construction kit and get a flask.

What fun is that?  

[SHORTY]

With luck and patience I will bee able to go down the road less traveled, rather than be another sheep olowing the leader.

I serious doubt that the p/p is the road less traveled.  You obviously are new here or have not been reading many post lately.  I was just tryin to help you out by saving you the time and money you will undoubtedly waste as you try to learn the p/p.  I know i wasted a hell of alot back in the day.  If you were to follow one of the recent writeups on the reflux then you are almost garanteed to succeed or you will defintely have a much better chance on a first rxn doing a reflux than you will a p/p.  With reflux you won't need "luck", however "patience" will be required. Let us know how it goes either way.  Good luck.

[Jacked]

Had it's time. Bullshit, Anyone remember the thread eye candy? Every picture of swims product was an is held in high regard, The fact of the mater is swim's refluxes has nothing but yields to contribute to this reasoning besides being easer to do for some... Remember there are 50 some odd impurities found in tobacco products besides the one that kills ya... Swim does a reflux now because of yields not quality or purity, Washing & Recrystallizing is at the end of every process PP reflux or birch.. Sorry about your ability's in such areas because reading your post brings them to light..
I guess I'm the only one that hasn't jumped on the kiss ass band wagon, If don't mater to me. Take any advice you like and I wish you the best of luck but as far as you calling something a thing of the past you better get some years under your belt before making statements like that...
Fucking ass kissing wagon must be the size of a train by now.

[mickyfinn]

SWIM wants to get something back and is tired of waiting 24 or 36 hours for his dreams to crush his spirit with zero return. He just gave 3 boxes of 48 60's with providone and 3 96 count 30mg derredded redhots with providone a 24 hour soak in xylene...it's filtering through a charmin plug. He's going to run STE when the stores that carry VM&P open and if the foil burn is clean he'll move forward with the last of the small rxn's for now. At the same time he's going to find the correct matchbooks to use...apparently there are specific brands that are desireable...Fart and Sminal or diamonds, correct?...and see about putting together 20G of mbrp so he can try a decent size run.

If the Worlock/Methhead p/p unit (which is too damn cool) can provide decent return (50%) and then be cleaned up xtra special then SWIM wants to fricken get on with that and then go back to experimenting with searching for the holy grail in a long reflux. He'd really like to birch it if he could make a very small amount of annie...

SWIM's tired of getting shit/being misunderstood for trying this at all and confused/sidetracked by all the data he keeps rabbit trailing while researching subject A, B or C in TFSE. He remembers that he thought the push/pull would be a great vehicle for dreams initially but bought into the long wet one and has been trying to bridge a rxn into a reflux...then he finally does an actual reflux and either runs it too hot, the rp wasn't clean or else he needs to slap a f**king mojo on this f**king voodoo curse that's killing his spirit and dreams.

So fuck it, SWIM's building a p/p unit like Worlock's picture...at least if there is a problem SWIM doesn't have to wait 2 days to find out.

Jacked:
Was re-reading the STE thread and noticed your warnings about the microwave came about the same time in the thread that SWIMFINN was replying to xboXer and geezer about the microwave not being recommended. It seems maybe you were warning SWIMFINN and SWIM missed that fact in the flurry of activity. If so, he's extremely thankful and touched by the warning, sorry he missed it,...if not, well....thanks anyway.

SWIM probably jumped on the bandwagon, but it wasn't to kiss anyone's ass...reading the reason behind the long wet reflux made/makes sense to SWIM, especially when reading a gifted narration by an eloquent speaker, but this dreaming is a strange animal with many different colors it seems. Good for the goose, good for the gander...SWIM just wants something f**king good for his effort...and it is/has been applied.

A few tricks for better dope thread

Post 170311 (missing)

(Worlock: "A few tricks 4 better dope", Stimulants) has what looks to be a slow start for a rxn that Worlock says will require less rp and help create killer honey...why is this not promoted?

It seems SWIM's gonna be behind the 8ball on research cuz there just ain't that many hours in the day to get up to speed (pun!) on the dreams around...but he's still learning and those old threads are just diamonds in the rough now.......and SWIM plays it tough out of the rough.

[morpheus]

DJChaos,swim thinks push pull units work great.
If the equipment you have looks good give it a try.
Remember the pp unit has to correspond size-wise to the amount of precursers used.
For example you don't do a 6 gram pseudo rxn with 2- 2 1/2 gallon gas cans.Back pressure plays a part as I'm sure you know.

[weaz1dls]

After the childrens tuitions have been exaughsted, and the dust settles, (as if!),  from the never ending scavenger hunt for those perfect pieces of..for that...Uhmmm?? Do I still need?


If you can relate with the above disregaurd this, If not...
You don't want to!!  Looking back, dreams of the long relaxed kind have always been best.  All else, even when a sucsess, are Nightmares in there own right.

do yourselves and all else a favor....invest in a condensor and flask as stated above. Lest ye be sucked in!

[mickyfinn]

do yourselves and all else a favor....invest in a condensor and flask as stated above. Lest ye be sucked in!

(Good luck with the tuitions and I hope you get a little windfall shortly to be able to spoil yourself a little)

Do you not understand the reasoning though? Why fail 10 times waiting 36 hours for the  reflux to finish alone when you can either succeed or not in 3? This has to speed up the learning curve...and if it is only yeild that is affected...so what? Right now it's better than phooking zero.

From what SWIM has gathered so far it is the creation of HI in a specific atmosphere; one where heat is not used in any abundance but pressure mainly creates an environment in which the HI reduces the fred.

From what SWIM read the only way to get sucked in is to block the outgoing hose from tank 2 or to have too small a container set up and create too much gas.

Aw phook, SWIM is getting fuzzy separating the Worlock/Methhead P/P from from other discussions he's recently poured over...so he's going back in for some re-reads...but SWIM would rather set it and forget it for 4 days wrapped in a towel next to some ambient heat; rather than set up a condensor and add ice every few hours over a hot plate if he's not going to go with a p/p 3 hour tour.

[LoW_JacK]

....invest in a condensor and flask as stated above

So why recook a done batch? Also, for the beginner, if they can grasp the push/pull in it's entirety, then they should stick to it. Because putting glassware like a condenser in the hands of a rookie will get them 3, maybe 4 or 5 rxn's ,TOPS.
Why, you say?
Well because every beginner I've seen (even some alright cooks) just dont have the sense of care for glass instruments like condensers and sep funnels.
Shit, most tweeks I know cookin' daily have enough trouble not breaking the mouth of their flasks 9 times outta 10.
Plus glass purchases can cause unneeded attention. Finally, the shit isnt cheap.
Grab 15 ft. of the next 2 the thickest braided hose from home depot, then run it straight off the top of the flask , up to the ceiling, then back down to a 5 gallon bucket of kitty liter/sand/dirt. Be-4 sealing the flask end , blow into it and make sure that you need to strain to get an ever so slight amount of air to escape.
Dont cut off all the airs escape route. If you do, your rxn wont proceed past BLUHH. And dont let 2 much air be forced up/down and out into the bucket, or bye bye HI.
This brief description is the best/easiest/affordable way to manufacture dope from HI. This is how the mexican national cartels run back to back 22liter rxn's.
But a tweeker can use a 1000ml flask and have a trouble free cookout every day for a year. Or until the window frames rust and rot off.

[mickyfinn]

glass aint no thang...SWIM's got flipper to man the gear and he don't break nuthin' he don't mean to break.  
The braided hose has advantages of course, if it works. SWIMS gonna watch that movie sometime...flippers got the 1 liter vacuum flask...will scope out the OD of the braided available locally and see about a fit. Flipper thinks he's got an idea for quick release attachment to the flask mouth for good seal.

[bbob]

Do you not understand the reasoning though? Why fail 10 times waiting 36 hours for the  reflux to finish alone when you can either succeed or not in 3? This has to speed up the learning curve...and if it is only yeild that is affected...so what? Right now it's better than phooking zero.

On a good day, I'd be able to lay claim to the same experience, identical frustration.

But it seems to me that there's no reason to expect any issue that impedes a long reflux to somehow have a less drastic effect on a much shorter and less forgiving reaction.

Not that I don't completely comiserate.  I'm just pretty sure it's my technique, not the choice of reaction, that needs attention.

[weaz1dls]

swiw has not had a long dream in years...they have been of the short nature.  Got rid of the glass erector set and said would not have another....Disposable is the word of the day!  But back (way back) when swiw was shown the door, and how to enter it, Swiw wanted to challenge
everything aboutit..so Imagine the day when a short dream was conjured...What do ya know...sucess...not so said the door keeper there is but one way..tell that to SWIW's cns system!...from there on it was trial and error.  Then a 4-5 yr break from kithchen land....only to instruct a few and succle on the tit of plausable deniability.  After stumbling into the hive one evening...jeckle was reborn...could it bee...an organized forum with bee's willing to share knowledge.  Reading on and on SWIW would laugh...to think the $$ on R&D,gaining insight the hard way, and most often the dangerous way. (A $9.00 fire extinguisher looks to be the best invesment , in retrospect, while watching your place burn up!), Anyway challenging the tried and true is the nature of the beast...SWIW know's there was nothing anyone could have told SWIW back then SWIW was on a mission for the undiscovered!  Only to find it's all been done.  Swiw was only retreading some old tires.  Experience cannot be had through listening alone, and all those who have some experince under there belt know  ya can talk til your blue in the face.....   Newbees need ask themselves a few qusestions to start off,  What is the purpose of the dream.  To finance or to learn, or for fun.
If finance, then go with tradition. And keep your trap shut! Those closest to you most often do most damage.
OK!OK! SWIW's point was every bee will find there favorite
rxn.  But at what cost has your experience come?  SWIW was told the same thing long ago "long slow glass yada, yada...ya right! just be careful, get some rest and if there is to mutch friction or things arn't right.  Backup and take your time.  There is to mutch at risk.  Control is an illusion and accountability is a bitch!




Fwewwww...I thought he'd never stop talking!  Did he even have a point, much less stay on that point???

The more I think I know, the more I know I don't.

[geezmeister]

MickeyFinn said a reflux did not work and he is tired of waiting 36 hours to get nothing. He wishes only to wait three hours to get nothing.

He makes a good point. If you can't get precursors clean enough to work in a long reflux, you aren't going to get there with a push-pull either. But it doesn't take as long to learn that you failed.

If you get something, chances are real good that you will have a batch of something so heat-driven it will come with its own cast of shadow people in every bump.

Your problem is not the method. If you can't get the reflux to give you good dope, you will not succeed with the same ingredients with a push pull method. Why did your reflux reaction not complete? What is it about the things in your flask that kept HI from forming and reforming? Something did. It wasn't the reflux.

My guess is that its your matchbook red phosphorous. You misread some information that usually goes unspoken on this board but can be located with a little searching. And you are not buying the matches I buy when the red phos fairy is on strike and not supplying the neighborhood.

When a red P/I2 reaction just does not get off the launching pad at all, the problem more often that not is the red phosphorous. If the problem were pill gakk, you would get part of the way done, and likely have some yield. It just would not finish. If it were pill gakk high cooking temps might overcome the gakk, at the price of by products, shooting sparks, and shadow people. If you lack the molar amount of red phosphorous you aren't going to get this to finish regardless of method or cooking temperature. The red phosphorous is probably your problem.  

Check your mail. Get it out of your head that the reflux is your problem. Its not.

[SHORTY]

Post 449232 (missing)

(SHORTY: "More on Phosphorus", Stimulants)

The "safety match" is the most familiar pyrotechnic device. It is reliable, and, as its name indicates, safe. It consists of two parts, the paraffin-impregnated splint with a head that constitutes the "first fire" of the device, and a striking strip. The head contains 45-55% KClO3, with a little sulphur and starch, a neutralizer (ZnO or CaCO3), 20-40% of siliceous filler, diatomite and glue. Some heads contain antimony trisulphide so they burn more vigorously. The striking strip is 50% red phosphorus, 5% neutralizer, 4% carbon black, 25% powdered glass for roughness, and 16% binder. Antimony trisulphide is sometimes also in the striking strip. Friction unites the chlorate and the phosphorus, initiating the reaction, which spreads to the fuels in the head, and from there to the splint. None of the components are poisonous or dangerous. A match head could explode if struck with a hammer on a hard surface, however, but this would not be very dangerous. Moisture is the enemy of matches, but the components will recover their activity on drying.

Note the 25% powdered glass that will bee in there no matter how well you clean it.  It won't hinder the rxn but the weight must be adjusted accordingly.  Just a thought.

[mickyfinn]

bbob, geez, shorty:

agreed, it's SWIM and not the reflux...don't recall blaming the reflux just wanting to speed up the learning curve and then get back to the reflux once SWIM got the p/p working and identified the area of the dream he didn't have in order.

SWIM plans to dream about one more small reflux and then will not dream about anything less than 20G again. This piddly nano crap has provided flipper the lab skills he needed in order to correctly step through the looking glass now.

This next reflux using 5G starting fred and 5G fresh/clean MBRP will tell the tale. Not sure how long it will take to get that all together but that is the last nano. Will attempt to do as instructed by council of the wise and report back when this has been readied to dream about.

thanks!

[LoW_JacK]

FUCK MBRP!!!!!! Find a mexican tweeker and spend a few dollars on the LGRP.

[Jacked]

Geez is 100% correct, You will not find success in a push pull when the reflux had problems.. The RP is going to be the first thing to be addressed, Try prefireing a small amount but instead of using H202 just use a small amount of H20 and gently heat the beaker your prefireing in. This should give you an indication of the activity of your Rp.
Shorty that is the best info I've ever seen on matches

[djchaos667]

I feel bad for starting this huge debate. For those who are having problems pulling off a reflux, I doubt that you will have more success with a push pull. Mine was successfull, but that is me. The one great advantage that I can see is time, you will know if you were successfull in hours rather than days. The push pull is more complicated, and defies all principals of organic chemistry, but it works. The decision remains with the cook. Think about the recorses at your disposal read everything you can find on the subject again and again. when you think you have the process down, read it again! Bee safe, follow Warlock's instructions, and take your time, you will have plenty. If reflux is working well for you why try to fix something that isn't broken.
But what do I know, I was never here.......
Chaos

[mickyfinn]

The RP is going to be the first thing to be addressed, Try prefireing a small amount but instead of using H202 just use a small amount of H20 and gently heat the beaker your prefireing in. This should give you an indication of the activity of your Rp.

SWIM had 1G left of the old MBRP so he decided to knock out a 1G nano for the last time. (SWIM ducks) Well the MBRP was nice and maroon when it went in and then turned to grey charcoal post reaction after drying. SWIM gave it hot DH20 rinses to clear the honey. If the tone wash returns it to maroon then SWIM will do that prefire test. Otherwise it may be awhile as SWIM is trying to pick up supplies each day to get the magic 60 boxes.