The Vespiary

The Hive => Chemicals & Equipment => Topic started by: Snarg on March 01, 2004, 08:32:00 AM

Title: R-12
Post by: Snarg on March 01, 2004, 08:32:00 AM

R-12 freeon... I read in one thread that it could be substatued for Anhydrouse amonia.. is this true or a load of BS?

Thanks

Title: freon- why wouldnt it work?
Post by: gsus on March 01, 2004, 09:08:00 AM

go ahead and try dissolving Li or Na in freon. might as well try all the other freons too. why would you want to use the "bad" freon when you can get cans of the "good" freon everywhere? i personally prefer maple syrup.

Title: It will probably react extremely violently or...
Post by: foxy2 on March 02, 2004, 05:27:00 AM

It will probably react extremely violently or explode if you add lithium to freon.

Title: freon and those evil meth cooks
Post by: gsus on March 02, 2004, 08:27:00 AM

i doubt "explode" would be the right description. for divided K, yes, but solid Li? anyways, Snarg, just a little fun. i was hoping someone would ask "which brand" or "we cant get maple syrup in the EU, is pine oil OK"
  freon is used to extract the freebase, nothing more.

Title: It depends. If you want to use it as a ...
Post by: praeseodymium on March 02, 2004, 11:39:00 AM

R-12 freeon... I read in one thread that it could be substatued for Anhydrouse amonia.. is this true or a load of BS?

It depends.
If you want to use it as a refrigerant, then R12 is pretty good, though I'm not sure it's better than ammonia....  so yes, it could be substituted with this application in mind.

As a precursor to an amine- no. Ie you cannot substitute ammonia with R12 in a chemical reaction which is intended to produce an amine using ammonia as the nitrogen source.

Chlorinated and fluorinated hydrocarbons are fairly unreactive, which is why they find use in refrigeration, and solvents.... and also why they survive for ages, unchanged until they end up all the way at the top of the atmosphere, where they meet hard radiation and ozone and monatomic oxygen and there combine with and deplete - no, can I say "fuck up"? (deplete sounds too ... depleted) the ozone layer.

Title: I don't think a chlorinated hydrocarbon is so...
Post by: karl on March 03, 2004, 11:40:00 PM

I don't think a chlorinated hydrocarbon is so stable to reducing agents like an alkali. There is a warning with LAH for example, not to use halogenated fire extinguishers as they can act as an oxidant. Surely the nitrogen is already present in the substance being produced not from the ammonia, I thought the idea was to obtain solvated electrons.

Title: R-12
Post by: wellbie2002 on March 04, 2004, 08:31:00 AM

Title: R-12
Post by: wellbie2002 on March 04, 2004, 08:34:00 AM

Title: No can get
Post by: morpheus on March 07, 2004, 09:39:00 PM

In swims(overly ecologically minded)state he lives in
it would probably be easier to buy lab grade rp from a
company than any of the R's that AC systems are charged with.Tourist on a hot summers day will come in the store and ask to buy one of the $30.00 kits that has 1 can and a hose that you screw on the low side of unit of AC.
Our reply is"they are illegal in *********".Swims state.
The answer is always the same"I bought one before at your
chain in my state.Swim is surrounded by states that sell kits with something other than R-12 or R-134.Its is supposedly ozone safe.
Anyways off the track here.Swim doesn't think he could get R-12.Plus the way the hive's bee's have proved themselves
to be the best chemists time and time again the best can bee had through other means than refridgerant.

Title: try the back
Post by: embezzler on March 07, 2004, 09:44:00 PM

Title: why not use a higher boiling amine, d00d?
Post by: ning on April 29, 2004, 06:24:00 PM

If you so dearly want to do some research, try using some higher-boiling amine. Maybee butylamine freebase or something.

It'd surely have a better chance than freon or maple syrup 8)

Title: Haloalkane Reactivity
Post by: lugh on July 09, 2004, 02:43:00 AM

This paper by Henne on the reactivity of various haloalkanes with alkali metals should clear up any confusion about this matter, dichlorodifluoromethane doesn't react with alkali metals, and thus couldn't be used in a Birch reduction of pseudoephedrine, unless one wishes to recover the undreduced pseudoephedrine, the alkali metal and the ozone depleting dichlorodifluoromethane as an excercise in futility  ;D

JACS 60 2275-6 (1938)

(https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/hive/hiveboard/picproxie_imgs/djvu.gif)

Title: R24 R27
Post by: Jacked on July 09, 2004, 09:11:00 PM

R24 R27 maybe