Ephedrine from livestock mineral blocks?

[xbnmx]

- INTELLIGENCE ALERT -

EPHEDRINE FROM LIVESTOCK MINERAL BLOCKS SCAM ENCOUNTERED IN BARRY COUNTY, MISSOURI
[From the NDIC Narcotics Digest Weekly 2003;2(49):2
Unclassified, Reprinted with Permission.]

Investigators from the Southwest Missouri Drug Task Force report that a defendant arrested for possessing chemicals used in the production of methamphetamine alleged that he was able to extract ephedrine from livestock mineral blocks. On November 4, 2003, investigators went to the defendant's Barry County home after witnessing an unusually large number of persons coming and going. Investigators state that they previously had seized chemicals used in the production of methamphetamine at the defendant's home. Upon speaking to the defendant, they again discovered he possessed chemicals including anhydrous ammonia, lye, and ether. Investigators also found trace quantities of methamphetamine at the home. During their discussion with the defendant, he provided the investigators with a recipe for allegedly extracting ephedrine from mineral blocks. According to the recipe, ephedrine could be obtained by sending a 220-volt current through a bucket containing a livestock mineral block. The defendant was arrested and charged with possession of anhydrous ammonia in an unapproved container.

NDIC Comment: Law enforcement officers in other Midwest states also have reported discoveries of mineral or salt blocks as well as chicken feed and empty chicken feed sacks at methamphetamine laboratory sites. Some of these officers have speculated that producers might extract ephedrine or pseudoephedrine from these products. However, according to Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) chemists, recipes suggesting that ephedrine or pseudoephedrine can be extracted from chicken feed or livestock mineral blocks for use in methamphetamine production are erroneous. Moreover, scientists from a major livestock feed producing company reviewed contents of mineral blocks and chicken feed and concluded that these products contain no ephedrine or pseudoephedrine. Mineral blocks, however, do contain salt that might be extracted for use in the methamphetamine production process.

[Scottydog]

The most bizarre recipe I ever heard, (or at least the biggest form of misinformation) was a recipe using a big speaker magnet wrapped in cheese cloth that is suspended from a piece of plywood that is barely touching the surface of premixed laying mash and gasoline.

According to the "believer/rumor spreader", by allowing the mix to set for 24 hours, eventually ephedrine would form a thick goo that attaches itself to the magnet. The magnet could then bee removed from the mix after a day and the goo scraped and washed with acetone.

Some rumors are like religion, giving false hope to a desperate mass of easily persuaded followers. *With modern day pseudo pills, there is enough desperation going around for everyone.*  

They even went so far to say that by using a car battery and wire that a stronger electro-magnet would pull more shit. Supposedly a boat oar is used to stir the mix.  

[WizardX]

According to the recipe, ephedrine could be obtained by sending a 220-volt current through a bucket containing a livestock mineral block. The defendant was arrested and charged with possession of anhydrous ammonia in an unapproved container.

The ephedrine is being reduced by the Electrochemical Birch Reduction. The Na or Li metal is being generated insitu via the electrolysis of NaCl or LiCl salts in anhydrous ammonia.

A deep blue solution results, just as if you added metal Na or Li to the anhydrous ammonia.

The electrochemical cell can be found in one of the references?

http://themerckindex.cambridgesoft.com/TheMerckIndex/NameReactions/ONR42.htm

As for the ephedrine source?? Not from mineral blocks and chicken feed!

[methyl_ethyl]

Hmm, this sounds familiar, could it be found in a sticky thread?

Oh, now I remember!

Post 471411

(methyl_ethyl: "(Pseudo)Ephedrine in Salt Licks? Pure Myth.", Stimulants)

Post 470846

(pancuronium: "licked by salt lick", Stimulants)

[methyl_ethyl]

I think I may have discovered some mis-information contained in a link that can be found on Rhodi's site, originally documented in the Journal of Forensic Science.  It may not mean shit to most, however I strongly believe it is incorrect. 

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/chickenfeed.html

it states that, "The feeds generally come in two types, 16 and 20, that describe the percentage of calcium present, and are usually a part of the product name.

I believe this to be misinformation, AFAIK those percentages are expressed as percent of total protein, not percent calcium.  I have never heard of a livestock feed having the percent calcium in it's name.  However most feeds will use the percent protein in the trade name.  I could be wrong and at present do not have any information to back this up, however a simple search would more than likely prove that the DEA is incorrect in their statements once again. 

Most probably a percentage of total protein may be due to small amounts of calcium. However feeds that indicate percentages of 16-20% are almost always due in part by formulations high in soy products and derivatives.

Again I am just pulling this from freshman animal science, many things may have changed since then, but I highly doubt feed manufacturers are expressing total calcium in their trade name.

regards,

methyl_ethyl

[Rhodium]

I guess the author thought that made sense when referring to feed for egg-laying critters, but 16-20% calcium is indeed a bit much. A quick search for "Nutrena Layer 16" indeed gave the answer that the numbers referred to total protein, not calcium:

http://www.hawaiiag.org/hdoa/pdf/feed-01poultry.pdf

[Osmium]

So are you saying that Nutrena Layer 16 contains 16% of pseudoephedrine?

 

[superman]

i can't help but to think he had these mineral block laying around just in case he got busted so as to make up this ridiculous storey

[Chong9886]

Hey there folks. Yes, I am a newbee here. I don't know squat about chemistry. I live in the heart of the mid-west and have wacthed my best friend for the past 1 1/2 half buy these mineral feed blocks to get E. Matter of fact he bought them in the same place in Kansas City that he bought his I2 in BB's. I witnessed it with ny own eyes him coming home with them then 2 hours later coming out with boo koo E. Unfortunately he is not around to explain the process. He has been detained for paying lack of child support. I will try to find out what he did by letters.. You folks will have to decipher it for me,

[Rhodium]

I witnessed it with ny own eyes him coming home with them then 2 hours later coming out with boo koo E.

Or in other words, you didn't see anything.

[Giver_Hell]

Matter of fact he bought them in the same place in Kansas City that he bought his I2 in BB's.

When you said BB, are you referring to the actual name of the mineral feed block used, right? If so I have hear a very similar story about those BB's having a special something inside them. But instead of have I2 I've heard they contain around 5lbs. of E. BB's are the only brand that I've heard conatins E. But like everyone else I've never seen nor done this before. Only heard from people who claim they can or have done it before but won't or can't give up the method that will pull the E out.

[jackhole]

[Scottydog]

"When you said BB, are you referring to the actual name of the mineral feed block used, right?"

In this context, I believe he is referring to the shape or form that the iodine comes in. Little small shaped bb's. The farmers call it "Prill"

[methyl_ethyl]

Only heard from people who claim they can or have done it before but won't or can't give up the method that will pull the E out.

Damn those greedy chemists, they have all of these wonderful secrets that they keep to themselves, the simple fact that they can extract a substance that is not contained in any amount from a said starting material and not let anyone in on the secret is just plain mean.

I have the same problem with a friend of a friend of my neighbor who goes into his barn with a kilogram of marble dust and comes out with 10 kilograms of Pt.  The little bastard won't tell anyone how he does it, but I can assure you I have seen the finished product.  And damn it makes nice jewelry and catalyst.

I love the entertainment value of the Stimulants Forum, more time than not it is more entertaining than the couch!

I love this place,

m_e

[Scottydog]

Too funny Methyl!  

"Unfortunately he is not around to explain the process. He has been detained for paying lack of child support."

With all of that "Boo Koo" Ephedrine, one might think that paying child support would bee the least of his worries, right?

A couple lbs of E would have Swim's bills paid for a few years.  

Once again, most of these stories that Swim heard from questionable prison sources are just that, QUESTIONABLE!

If one were to look at the courthouse "paperwork" of some of these incarcerated, misinformation spreaders, you will find that most of them are in for non drug related petty offenses.

If they REALLY knew all the ins and outs of the lost art, having manufacturing somewhere on their jacket MIGHT make them more credible.

Most of these stories come from ignorant street tweekers, slammed for burglary, armed robbery, aggravated assault or theft.

We all know what they did to get their drugs.  

[cycosyince]

You just have to be careful when ordering E-flavored salt licks. Because a 50lb block has what... 10lbs of E in it? In the real world, when you add enough E to a lick to produce an effect in a horse or cow, not only is the lick a block of controlled substance, the block itself would sit untouched because animals DO have taste buds. Go ahead and offer a horse or cow a handfull of E mixed with salt 70/30 (70 NaCl 30 E)and see how often they come back for more. E is a very strong bitter taste that is completely unpalatable. The same problem arises if you try to cut ma huang into animal feed. Where has anybody ever seen a chewable ephed tablet? eewwwwwaaaaaaaghhh...huc, huc, RALPH! Sorry, hadda hurl.
 When you operate in the millions of dollars with livestock, you use common sense, and only feed your stock irrisistably deliceous feed/tried and true hay. Then when you need to med your stock, MOST of it MUST be performed by a lic. Vet due to the administer route being I.V. and the understanding that the vet knows alot more about medications due to having a degree or two in the field.
Licks are mineral/vitamin sources that supplement the food an animal recieves mainly in a "range" setup, and there are NOT repeat NOT licks that stand as self service drug dispensing lollipops in which the animal determines the dosage necessary. That would be as smart as putting out a bowl of tylenol/cod. #3s and letting your toddler figure out the amount needed to relieve that teething pain. Yeah kids and animals know what dosage to take almost instinctivly! Please, if you think that would be a viable option, do not breed. 

Heheheh, anyone here have parents that freaked out when they discovered you downed the bottle of orange flavored St. Joeseph's asperin for kids? No Mrs. Davis it is just asperin, and the only trouble might be a bellyache. " Then the Emer. rm. bill comes and they freakout all over again...


fine guess I was the only one. Hell it was a hard day at the babysitter's and I couldn't reach the scotch!

Ephed in licks and seed... heh. Heheheh hahaha, heeheeheeh...BWAAAAAAAAAAAAAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahaha. Don't be THAT guy, he gets laughed at because he is a moron  

[18294]

SWIM's person theory as to how this myth keeps persisting as follows:

The term "feedstock" is often used to denote the pseudo ephedrine pills. When no explanation is given to a newbee, he may mistakenly beleive it is somehow related literally to "feedstock."

make sense?

I suggest that Bees no longer use this term to stop the confusion.

[Vitus_Verdegast]

Who wants to make gold anymore, when just heating salt and minerals with a dash of philosopher's stone will transmutate it straight into ephedrine.


Mineral blocks, however, do contain salt that might be extracted for use in the methamphetamine production process.

Am I missing something here? Since when did table salt become watched??

[fnord]