Author Topic: Making Ammonium Nitrate (Read 5012 times)

Dazza · « **on:** February 11, 2002, 07:11:00 AM »

Hey,
would SWIM be able to get ammonium nitrate by reacting ammonium chloride with sodium nitrate?

demorol · « **Reply #1 on:** February 11, 2002, 02:52:00 PM »

Amonium nitrate is easily available OTC. Just get couple of cold packs. One bag contains water and one contains ammonium nitrate.

Life without chemistry would be a mistake.

PrimoPyro · « **Reply #2 on:** February 11, 2002, 03:14:00 PM »

Not always. Many are urea based, not ammonia based.

The Water Will Be Your Only Mirror

Elementary · « **Reply #3 on:** February 11, 2002, 08:22:00 PM »

To answer your question, yes !!!

Solubilities at 0°C

Ammonium Nitrate : 118g/100g of water
Sodium Chloride : 35.57g/100g of water

Some people just can't answer a simple question !

Antibody2 · « **Reply #4 on:** February 12, 2002, 12:43:00 AM »

NH4NO3 is also available as fertilizer, 25kg for $10.

I don't think there would be any rxn between NaNO3 and NH4Cl. If i wanted to make NH4NO3 though i would use nitric acid (hydroponic shop) and aqueous ammonia (window cleaner). I think even nitric acid and NH4Cl would work, but i am not 100%.

Elementary · « **Reply #5 on:** February 12, 2002, 12:55:00 AM »

"I don't think there would be any rxn between NaNO3 and NH4Cl"

Of course it would work it is basic solubility chemistry !

The solubility of sodium nitrate at 0°c is 73g/100g of water, and for ammonium chloride it is 28g/100g of water at 0°c, so the ammonium nitrate due to greater solubility will hog the water, driving the ion exchange reaction in its direction.

Some people would rather ruin a thread than answer the question !

Antibody2 · « **Reply #6 on:** February 12, 2002, 04:19:00 AM »

if you say so

Psi_Locybe · « **Reply #7 on:** February 12, 2002, 05:47:00 AM »

Of course it would work it is basic solubility chemistry !

Thanks - I wasn't previously familiar with enhanced solubility as a lower-energy state. Makes some degree of sense, though... I'll be sure to toy with it.

As a counterpoint, however, if I recall correctly, NH3 is a weaker base than, say, NaOH... and also, if I recall correctly, HCL is slightly weaker than, say NO3. This would imply :

a) Ab2's nitric acid/ammonium chloride would probably work, IMHO... but more to the point of this...

b) If I take your word on increased solubility as a lower-energy (preferred) state (it seems logical, but if I took EVERYTHING that made sense to my wingnut ass as gospel without doing the experiments...), in what way would one counterbalance this against a reaction being otherwise dispreferred? Where would I know which would take precedence?

Thanks...

Rev. Psi Locybe, insane alchemist.

Nemo_Tenetur · « **Reply #8 on:** February 12, 2002, 12:55:00 PM »

The commercial available ammonium-nitrate based fertilizer usually contains (at least in most european countries) some cacium carbonate to reduce the explosive properties and to make the handling easier. I recommend extraction with hot water/recristallization before using.

masterofpuppets · « **Reply #9 on:** February 23, 2002, 06:56:00 AM »

isn't it the jelly ice packs the ones made with amonium nitrate (I have seen "solid" ones - methinks that may have different compound in it).

I wouldn't do that if I were you.....

mottaman420 · « **Reply #10 on:** February 24, 2002, 10:55:00 PM »

Be very careful not to blow yourself up. I would make sure u use only previously tested methods gotten from someone who has done it first hand

_.-==''SupaTokaBuDsMoka''==-._
'''''''GonnaGetHighTillIDie'''''''

PrimoPyro · « **Reply #11 on:** February 24, 2002, 11:04:00 PM »

The chances of spontaneous detonation of ammonium nitrate are incredibly small. It's the most insensitive bitch of an explosive Ive ever had the mnisfortune to "work" with. To bee honest, from a pyro point of view, I hate ammonium nitrate. The power is really good actually, but it is just outright too damn hard to make it detonate without a superior explosive acting as a primer/booster.

It doesn't even want to burn unless you have a flame ON IT, or some oxidizer/violent reaction already occurring, like KClO3/H2SO4 (dont do this at home).

In a nutshell, the only thing NH4NO3 might do when heated when wet is decompose to some lovely nitrous oxide.

Whatcha want the ammonium nitrate for?

PrimoPyro

The Water Will Be Your Only Mirror

SilverSurfer · « **Reply #12 on:** February 24, 2002, 11:40:00 PM »

Maybe u should soak some NitroG with it and blow it then.

PrimoPyro · « **Reply #13 on:** February 24, 2002, 11:50:00 PM »

Hey, don't get this thread locked.

I was just putting in my two cents that NH4NO3 is not a lab danger.

The Water Will Be Your Only Mirror

masterofpuppets · « **Reply #14 on:** February 25, 2002, 01:07:00 AM »

It could bee a lab danger - it is good to bee aware of these things.

I wouldn't do that if I were you.....

Elementary · « **Reply #15 on:** February 25, 2002, 01:26:00 AM »

I can't really see any (mind-altering) use for the stuff, there are less expensive other ammonium salts that are easily available, such as ammonium sulphate.

Yes you can make nitrous oxide (laughing gas) with it, but then again you can buy nitrous oxide in little whipped cream canisters, an that will save you having to heat Ammonium Nitrate.

Make Love Not War !!!!!

Umm, how interesting !!

PrimoPyro · « **Reply #16 on:** February 25, 2002, 01:44:00 AM »

It can be used to oxidize MDP2Pol to MDP2P with cupric acetate and acetic acid.

It can also be used to make methylamine.

The Water Will Be Your Only Mirror

Elementary · « **Reply #17 on:** February 25, 2002, 02:48:00 AM »

I have a suspicious mind !!

Thank-you pyro, I feel much safer talking about it now !

Umm, how interesting !!

MMM · « **Reply #18 on:** February 26, 2002, 05:05:00 PM »

From memory, it wasnt even known to be explosive until a shipload caught fire, even then it didnt blow until half had burnt.

Decomposing it to make nitrous oxide is the only way I am aware of to get it to accidently blow up in a lab tho, when it was used to generate gas, the decomposition was stopped after about two thirds had decomposed. (check the figures and method if anyone wants to try) For information only.

MMM

When the day is bad,and life's a curse
CHEER UP!!! Tomorrow may be Worse!!
('HAGAR' Comic)

Dr_Sister · « **Reply #19 on:** February 26, 2002, 07:46:00 PM »

It can be used to oxidize MDP2Pol to MDP2P with cupric acetate and acetic acid. haven't been many successes reported with this method

7.10.01

PrimoPyro · « **Reply #20 on:** February 26, 2002, 08:49:00 PM »

It also hasn't been done in a long time.

The Water Will Be Your Only Mirror

Rhodium · « **Reply #21 on:** February 26, 2002, 09:20:00 PM »

MMM:

http://www.texas-city-tx.org/docs/exp.htm

Osmium · « **Reply #22 on:** February 26, 2002, 11:48:00 PM »

Oppau, (Germany), September 21, 1921.
The BASF plant at Oppau was manufacturing Mischsaltz, a 50/50 mixture of ammonium sulfate and ammonium nitrate. This fertilizer tends to cake like conventional ammonitrates. Standard practice at the plant was to break these heaps into manageable blocks, using explosives. At the time of the catastrophe, this had been done more than 20,000 times. The storage involved that day contained 4,500 tons of fertilizer (it was estimated that only about 450 tons exploded). It is assumed that the last cartridge exploded in a region of the mass where the density was lower than usual (because of recent changes in the production) and where the ammonium nitrate concentration in the Mischsaltz was higher than average. The important influence of these changes on the sensitivity of the product had not been realized. It was shown later that the sensitivity of Mischsaltz to explosion trigger increases rapidly with increasing ammonium nitrate concentration. This fact also explains why only part of the storage exploded. The catastrophe made 500 deaths.

http://www.sfc.fr/Guiochon%20VO/exinvolontaireVO.htm

And to scare you all a little more, AN can even detonate when dissolved in water (a 83% solution in this case):

http://www.uneptie.org/pc/apell/disasters/toulouse/other_accidents.htm

http://www.epa.gov/swercepp/pubs/terrasum.html

And that's the latest known big accident involving AN, on 9-21-2001:
(some people thought it was a terrorist attack)

http://www.uneptie.org/pc/apell/disasters/toulouse/

I'm not fat just horizontally disproportionate.

PrimoPyro · « **Reply #23 on:** February 27, 2002, 03:36:00 AM »

And what kind of massive shockwave must be passed through the water solution to get that to detonate might I ask?

The Water Will Be Your Only Mirror

pROcon · « **Reply #24 on:** February 27, 2002, 05:47:00 AM »

I'm thinking all us naughty bastards have the same background, ill bet you all printed out your copies of the terrorist handbook and cookbook on your noisy ricketty dot matrix back in the day, just in case the floppy disk you hocked it off the kid at school with the net (who told you it was a government secret) distributed it on had a CRC or your HD crashed. Having full intentions of producing the plastic explosives described in your garage "carefully", then only to remember you were too CHICKENsHIT to go to the store and purchase the materials required, nor could your allowance accomodate more than the 250gm pack of twisties you also required.

pROcon

don't call me...I wont answer, or call you back.

PrimoPyro · « **Reply #25 on:** February 27, 2002, 11:54:00 AM »

Oh my fucking jesus christ!

I can't believe it. You just literally described me word for fucking word when I was 13. That was my introduction to chemistry. In the back of the te**o*ists handbook, where they have the pyrochemical equations, was the first time I ever saw chemical shorthand.

Oh god, the memories. How the FUCK did you know about that? Who the hell are you?

PrimoPyro

The Water Will Be Your Only Mirror

Osmium · « **Reply #26 on:** February 27, 2002, 12:25:00 PM »

There was no internet when Os blew up his first trashcan.
But Os literally read every chapter 24 (27?) of nearly ALL Chemical Abstracts editions (from 1920 to about 1990), the ones about propellants, explosives and fire extinguishing compositions. Lots of good shit in there, but it took me almost a year

No terrorist handbook for me, thank you

I'm not fat just horizontally disproportionate.

Elementary · « **Reply #27 on:** February 27, 2002, 01:10:00 PM »

Poor Little Froggies

Research has shown that Ammonium Nitrate (a fertilizer) can cause agonizing death for frogs. This fertilizer is spread on fields in the spring when frogs are migrating. Frogs suffer a massive toxic attack if they come in contact with it.

UK Availability

Ammonium nitrate can be found on it's own as a fertiliser or sold in chalk coated pellets, the two substances can be seperated by their solubilites. There are strict controls on the sale of Ammonium Nitrate in Northern Ireland (I wonder why !).

Use in mining

(pure AM is white this has additives and is used for mining)

Umm, how interesting !!

Rhodium · « **Reply #28 on:** February 28, 2002, 01:25:00 AM »

Os: As a small matter of coincidence, I have also browsed the whole printed version of CA in search of explosives (oh, I long SO for the day when every page of CA, Gmelin, Beilstein and all the primary literature is available as PDF (or whatever the preferred format will be at that date) connected to a supercomputer powered search engine...

It would not be too bad to synchronize that database with SynGen, to make it really perfect

PrimoPyro · « **Reply #29 on:** February 28, 2002, 04:55:00 AM »

Have you been reading my mail?

The Water Will Be Your Only Mirror

Rhodium · « **Reply #30 on:** February 28, 2002, 05:52:00 AM »

Yes (your mails to me, that is), but I can wait for that killer app/database until it happens by itself, instead of doing the archiving myself.

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