Author Topic: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2  (Read 16018 times)

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PoohBear4Ever

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #20 on: February 06, 2002, 05:44:00 PM »
Yep, that should work...

PB

BTW, here's what unnilhexium told me: "All aminations were of the al/hg variety, using methanol as a solvent (isopropanol was never used successfully), with ~.5 gram blobs of hg dropped into I2 tincture, allowed to react for a few days, and then used to amalgamate.

Swim recorded an actual amalgamtion time, it took 17 minutes(.5g mercury blob, 30g Al). The basic procedure is to put a plastic dish on the old balance, zero it, and poke at a mercury blob until about .3-.5 grams is weighed out, then dump it into some 2% I2 tincture, the kind you buy at walmart.  I can't verify that HgI2 is formed, but I have successfully amalgamated using this procedure."

Pray for him ya'll, he may just need it  :( !

SuperStar

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #21 on: February 06, 2002, 07:11:00 PM »
Can anyone tell SWIM a good method for breaking one of these thermometers to keep everything contained and not breath too much vapor.  SWIM was thinking maybe in a tall thick glass with rag on top.  Thermom is about 4 - 5 inch long fairly small.

noj

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #22 on: February 06, 2002, 07:17:00 PM »
That's still 500mg of mercury. .5g is 500mg. I would think 1/4 to 1/3 bottle would work, but never done it so can't say from experience.

there must be an answer for everything, if only you knew how to set forth the questions

noj

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2002, 07:20:00 PM »
swim uses a pair of side dykes (linesman type pliers) and cuts at the base of the silver to glass interphase. Do this over a dish, use tweezers to get the glass shards out. There is no vapor, it is a liquid metal.

there must be an answer for everything, if only you knew how to set forth the questions

SuperStar

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2002, 07:33:00 PM »
Yea that is 500mg Hg, but actually more like 1130mg of HgI2 if you take into consideration the 2 Iodine atoms right?  If you use figure above you would have HgI2 = 454g/mol.

Is everyone just assuming that extra doesn't really matter?

SWIM is so new it hurts.  Trying to dot i's and cross those t's.

SWIM may be making too much out of this but might as well clear it up here.

noj

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2002, 08:08:00 PM »
The idea is to use as little Hg as possible. It doesn't go away when the reaction is finished, and it doesn't go very far when you flush it down the drain. And acquisition isn't getting any easier either.

there must be an answer for everything, if only you knew how to set forth the questions

SuperStar

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2002, 08:17:00 PM »
OH yea, SWIM definetly wants to use as little as possible. That is what I am trying to figure out. I need someone with more experience though. I don't have quite enought knowledge yet to figure this out. Those digital thermoms are definetly becoming the standard.

Can someone verify that 500mg Hg added to 30 ml 2% Iodine = 1130mg HgI2?  If not how much do you have?

SWIM is back to the original question. How many grams of HgI2 do you end up with?

PoohBear4Ever

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2002, 08:22:00 PM »
Best to use empirical evidence in this case, since there are many variables that exsist for the HgI2 formation. 

PB

backburner70

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #28 on: February 07, 2002, 11:57:00 AM »
Its interesting what you find in the trash these days...

"A very small amount of elemental mercury was added to 2 molar equivalents of iodine crystals in a closed container and gently shaken. A clumpy crimson powder formed over the next hour. Visual inspection indicated that a small portion of unreacted mercury and iodine was trapped in the clumps, so a few drops of methanol were added. All clumps disappeared and the components went into solution. This mix was added to a larger volume of methanol, and the experimenter noticed a very small portion of greenish-yellow solids remained undissolved in the bottom of the flask. This was assumed to be mercurous iodide (versus mercuric). Al foil was added to the flask and amalgamation began in earnest in less than 2 minutes time (probably owing to the large volume of Hg salts present). The experimenter concluded that the HgI2 formed was completely viable."

One would assume that I2 tincture should behave in a similar fashion.

BB 7.0

LaBTop

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #29 on: February 07, 2002, 03:14:00 PM »
Hehhe, Backburner70!
Only thing I would like to add to this thread:
Do you realize that when you dump ANY amount of fluids containing fluidal mercury in your wash table's drain pipe, that that fuckin mercury is so damm heavy, it will stick at the bottom of the first S curve it finds, and that is the one which will over time dry out when you don't use your lab frequently, thus giving the mercury all the time in the world to EVAPORATE into your precious little lab, and then, when you enter after a summer of love, your playground again, it will be taken up in your lungs, AND NEVER LEAVE THEM EVER AGAIN!
There used to be a little thread around here telling the story of a full proof professional researcher, a woman btw, who slowly showed all signs of mercury poisoning and didn't understand them, until too late, she DIED.
Look up how much elementary mercury your precious life system, called body, can afford.
Be prepared to get a shock.

Don't play around with elementary mercury, if you are a total newbee.
Lugh somewhere gave some basic rules for handling mercury and mercury spills, a must read for all those who read this thread. There is a simple way of getting rid of elementary mercury, by turning it into a not very toxic salt, so find that thread! Think of iron. LT/

WISDOMwillWIN

PoohBear4Ever

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #30 on: February 07, 2002, 03:14:00 PM »
What ratio of HgI2:Al was used?  How long was the iodine and mercury allowed to react for?

PB

isohuman

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #31 on: February 07, 2002, 03:59:00 PM »
Holy shit!  ISO-SWIM goes on a synthesizing binge, and comes back to see this thread has doubled in size.  Anyways party people, this is not hard.  For one, you will never know how much of the hg actually converts to the salt, and two, this reaction is not THAT sensitive to the amount of Hg salt used.  ISO-SWIM has had consistent success for anywhere from .2 to .5g blobs of mercury, for a standard size MM nitro/al-hg.  As my stoichiometry skills have calculated, 1 30ml 3% I2 tincture can process .5g of  mercury.  It just happens that it only takes one tincture.  Trust me, a range of .3 to .6g of mercury will work, as long as the tincture is allowed AT LEAST a few days to stand.  ISO-SWIM has already done a half dozen more of these, and this procedure is BULLET-PROOF.  ISO-SWIM has had a 100% success rate.  BTW, please report on your successes, this is a good procedure, so I don't want this thread to sit here for two years before somebee trys it.

PoohBear4Ever

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #32 on: February 07, 2002, 05:09:00 PM »
Hey isohuman, turn on those PMs if you'd like me to reply...

PB

Vibrating_Lights

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #33 on: February 08, 2002, 03:35:00 AM »
buy 1 $ heat thermostat from the hardware store and pt iti in a 1oz bottle of 2% tincture. allow to set for a few days till the black color is gone and dump the liquid into the al solution.  then just add another bottle of fresh i2 to the remaining blob.  continue until the blob is gone.
VL_

backburner70

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #34 on: February 08, 2002, 07:39:00 AM »
LT,

I am aware. I guess the emphasis on my post should be on the phrases:

"A VERY SMALLL amount of mercury," and "a CLOSED container".

But yeah, elemental mercury is not to be messed with. A quick scan of Google or any other search engine will yield a number of horror stories. SWIM generally uses prepared HgCl2, but this thread was interesting.

Now that I think about it, something that is missing from the Hive is a mercury safety FAQ. This would be extremely useful for Newbees since this topic seems to come up on a regular basis. I volunteer to compile it.  Suggestions for starting material are wlecome.

BB 7.0

Rhodium

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #35 on: February 08, 2002, 07:55:00 AM »
Backburner: That is a very good initiative. There has been good threads in the past on mercury handling, disposal and toxicity, so a good starting point would be TFSE.

noj

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #36 on: February 08, 2002, 08:18:00 AM »
Here are some things from the EPA:

Chemical Formula:  HgCl2

Molecular Weight:  271.52

Routes of Entry:  Inhalation:  Yes (Weiss 1980, p. 581)
                      Skin:  Yes (*Gosselin 1976)
                      Ingestion:  Yes (*Browning 1969)

    Health Hazards (Acute, Delayed, and Chronic):  It is classified as
    extremely toxic.  All forms of mercury are poisonous if absorbed.  Probable
    oral lethal dose is 5-50 mg/kg; between 7 drops and 1 teaspoonful for a 150
    lb. person.  Mercuric chloride is one of the most toxic salts of mercury
    (*Gosselin 1976).  Material attacks the gastrointestinal tract and renal
    systems (*Friberg 1979).

Extinguishing Methods:  Some of these materials may burn but none of them
    ignite readily.  Extinguish with water spray, fog, foam, dry chemical or
    carbon dioxide (*DOT 1984).

Unusual Fire and Explosion Hazards:  Material may explode on heating, with
    friction, or contact with alkali metals, sulfides, acetylene, ammonia, and
    oxalic acid (*Rumack 1975 to Present).

Stability:  Unstable:
                Stable:  Yes (Weiss 1980, p. 581)

        Conditions to Avoid:  Mercuric chloride may explode with friction or
        application of heat.  Mixtures of mercuric chloride and sodium or
        potassium are shock sensitive and will explode on impact (*NFPA 1978).
        Avoid contact with acids or acid fumes (*Sax 1975).

    Incompatibility (Materials to Avoid):  Formates, sulfites, hypophosphites,
    phosphates, sulfides, albumin, gelatin, alkalies, alkaloid salts, ammonia,
    lime water, antimony, arsenic, bromides, borax, carbonates, reduced iron,
    copper, iron, lead, silver salts, infusions of cinchona, columbo, oak bark
    or senna, and tannic acid (*Merck 1983).

    Hazardous Decomposition or Byproducts:  Upon decomposition highly toxic
    chloride and mercury fumes are emitted (*Sax 1975).



there must be an answer for everything, if only you knew how to set forth the questions

SuperStar

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #37 on: February 08, 2002, 10:28:00 AM »
SWIM like vibrating's method the best so far.  That makes sense. You only have to get the mecury once. Those thermostat switches contain about 5g Hg. So that should last 10 bottles of tincture. Also know that one bottle of tinture can convert .5g Hg so you know how much salt you are adding.  Plus only have to handle the mercury once.  SWIM is very interested in disposal of mercury and what to do with the post AL/Hg sludge?

lugh

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #38 on: February 08, 2002, 10:51:00 AM »

Post 228769

(lugh: "Re: proper waste disposal", Chemistry Discourse)


PoohBear4Ever

  • Guest
Re: MM Nitro/Al-Hg variation: No HgCl2
« Reply #39 on: February 08, 2002, 11:36:00 AM »
Also, concerning HgI2, see:

Post 266736

(PoohBear4Ever: "Re: First posted 100% OTC dream (told y'all) - Eze", Methods Discourse)


PB