Chemistry classes

[dickdastardly]

I had to put in a post because I'm coming to the end of my first semester of chemistry and have to say to anyone out there attempting to do any of this stuff without any actual chemistry experience is asking for trouble. Now that I know what everyone is talking about I know how dangerous this stuff can really be without any experience. I highly reccomend anyone thinking about putting any of the stuff in here to use that they take some sort of chemistry courses and be sure to use proper equipment. otherwise your ass could be grass.

[foxy2]

First semester of general chem?
hehehe

[TrypNballZium]

is the ability to realize that your your own teacher.

arrogance often comes in the disguise of an unenlighted preacher posin as a teacher.

instructor teach thyself.

[ballsdeep]

I agree with the "bee your own teacher" thing, but I think that what dickdastardly is saying is that a bee shouldn't try any of this stuff (not that any of us would, of course, beecause it's illegal ) without first studying not just the synth instructions, but also the chemistry involved. My guess is that some people out there are reckless enough to just find a recipe and "wing it", without knowing what's really going on in the chemical reaction, (or even knowing what an electron is   ). It would seem to me that that's how spontanious firework shows happen.

[foxy2]

real chemists "wing it" all the time.  They don't know for sure whats happening, they know what they hope will happen.  Sometimes those are very different.

The real dangers
fire
pressure
poison
incompatibility

If you know the basic properties of the chems your using then these can bee minimized.  A good fume hood helps beyond measure.

[crash]

Swim is at the end of swims first year of chem. really excited about organic  :-]

[ballsdeep]

"A good fume hood helps beyond measure."

In chemical EXPERIMENTS a fume hood would definately bee needed, but is one also necessary if someone is just doing the long, wet reflux of honey?

[foxy2]

Someone told me the bathroom fan works for that.  

[ballsdeep]

Thanks foxy2! ...but it would seem like that would also result in distributing the smell around your neighborhood for the curious neighbors to smell.

[moo]

Yeah well, a fumehood is also going to exhaust the fumes somewhere, not just let a tiny black hole suck them all into oblivion. I guess a water scrubber or a hose and a wash bottle is the answer if the fumes are to be gotten rid of.

But then again, this has been discussed ad nauseum.

[Goodtimes]

If gen chem impressed you this much, just wait until you hit O-chem.  Very fond memories, very hard, but interesting.....

[Megatherium]

Very fond memories, very hard, but interesting.....

Organic chemistry isn't that hard.  You just have to UNDERSTAND what is going on in the reaction mechanisms (the electron-movements)

Personally, I am under the impression that "theoretically" knowing organic chemistry and standing in a laboratory are two different things.

For the latter, one needs experience and the only way to obtain that is: learning by doing.  For carrying out most detailled described lab procedures here, it is more usefull to read a lab manual than a organic chemistry textbook.  Of course one has to know what is going on in the particular reaction you're interested in, but this doesn't imply that you have to store March, Advanced Organic Chemistry in your head   .

What every newbee needs is:
Vogel's textbook of practical organic chemistry, 5 th edition.
ISBN 0-582-46236-3

or the equally good

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/vogel3.html

And another important thing: check out the Material Safety Data Sheets (MSDS) for the compounds you're working with!

[yinga]

Having recently been learning organic chemistry myself, I feel it is infinitely more satisfying performing procedures with knowledge of the reaction rather than just following them recipe style.  A good knowledge of chemistry in general also greatly helps in the lab for practical purposes.  You won't have to memorize write-ups step by step, because you understand why each step is performed.  You won't be as likely to make stupid mistakes, such as doing something that would obviously (to someone with more knowledge) destroy your target compound.  You'll understand why it is important to do three extractions instead of just one, etc.  You will also be more likely to understand the importance of proper purification.  And of course safety (there's a reason why more meth labs blow up than labs run by knowledgeable persons).  Swim has a long way to go on all of these aspects but it IS worth it for anyone here that hasn't done so to pick up a general chem book and read it.  The idea of someone trying to synthesize chemicals for consumption with as little knowledge of chemistry as possible is unsettling.

[Megatherium]

OK, you're right.  I only wanted to point out that you can restrict your "chemical knowledge" to the procedure you're planning to undertake.  One doesn't have to be a chemical engineer to cook up some amphetamines.

But of course, a good academic education can be helpfull  

[ballsdeep]

re

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/vogel3.html

Mamma-mia! That's a HUGE book! After glancing at it, it looks like it would bee extremely helpful to the newbee who has no lab/chemistry experience. Hats off to Rhodium!
But the one thing that kind of "freaks me out" is to know that Rhodium has probably not only read ALL 1,200 pages of that book, but probably understands it all too!

[Megatherium]

A newbee doesn't have to read the entire book.  I 've got the 5 th ed. at hand now.  If you read the experimental techniques and the solvents and reagents section, that will do.  Nobody reads the entire section with the laboratory procedures, that is intended as a reference.  If you search for a particular reaction, just look it up   .

[ballsdeep]

I specifically looked for a go-go-synth, but couldn't find one. Does it have one on go-go?

[moo]

No, but that's why you are here aren't you? If the Rhodium archive doesn't satisfy your go-go synth needs, then you have to UTFSE!

[ballsdeep]

I am VERY satisfied and excited with what I've found on both this site, and also on Rhodium's site. I was just wondering if this book had additional go-synths.
Believe me- I've already found enough great info on these 2 sites to keep me busy for a long, long time. Now if I can just get my newbee brain to really absorbe and learn this stuff.  

[Megatherium]

The only go-go synth (LOL) that can be found in Vogel, 3 th edition, is that of methylamine.

What did you expect, that such a highly regarded lab manual would be stuffed with drug procedures?  Read in it to learn about general laboratory skills (they will become quite handy, whatever you're trying to cook).