The Vespiary

The Hive => Chemicals & Equipment => Topic started by: skanic on July 09, 2004, 11:36:00 AM

Title: help !!! catalyst needed
Post by: skanic on July 09, 2004, 11:36:00 AM
hello bees,
swim wanna make dihydrocodeinone as described in rhodium's site (

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/dihydromorphinones.html (https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/dihydromorphinones.html)

) but doesn't have palladium and not platinum.
so, WHERE COULD I FIND "PALLADIUM BLACK" ???
if not, can an other otc catalyst be used (nickel...)?
thank you
Title: > WHERE COULD I FIND "PALLADIUM BLACK
Post by: Osmium on July 11, 2004, 08:19:00 AM
> WHERE COULD I FIND "PALLADIUM BLACK" ???

Sigma/Aldrich/Fluka
Merck
Johnson-Mattey/Alfa Aesar
Engelhard
and so on

Title: thank you osmium
Post by: skanic on July 12, 2004, 01:26:00 AM
thank you osmium, but i don't like this companies >:( .
are platinum or palladium used otc (electronic...), and if so, where can i find them ?
and again, can OTHER CATALYST be used in that reaction(nickel...)  ?
Title: UTFSE
Post by: Rhodium on July 12, 2004, 02:28:00 AM
can OTHER CATALYST be used in that reaction(nickel...)  ?

Nickel is likely not active enough for that procedure, but I doubt it has been experimentaly proven.

are platinum or palladium used otc (electronic...), and if so, where can i find them ?

1. For the preparation of Palladium and Platinum Black, read my

Palladium/Platinum Catalyst Preparation FAQ (https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/pd-catalyst.faq.html)

(https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/pd-catalyst.faq.html)

2. UTFSE for OTC sources of the necessary chemicals.

Title: need Pd
Post by: skanic on July 12, 2004, 07:06:00 AM
excuse me rhod, but i cant make the preparations described in your faq.
the commercial sources on internet have outrageous prices.
then,i utfse and i read palladium (black is the one i want) can be found otc at "local car wreckers', electronic stores, bullions dealers...
-could anybody tell me more about it ?
-and again, is there an other catalyst i could use instead of Pd and Ni ?
thank you ;)
Title: You want cheap palladium?
Post by: Nicodem on July 12, 2004, 01:56:00 PM
commercial sources on internet have outrageous prices

Off course, what did you expect, palladium is a very precious metal and more expensive than gold.

Title: Re: and again, is there an other catalyst i...
Post by: ApprenticeCook on July 12, 2004, 11:21:00 PM

and again, is there an other catalyst i could use instead of Pd and Ni ?

Probably some other weird and wonderfull transition metal compound.

There have been threads on palladium from catalytic converters etc, utfse. There are some other places that may order it for you... utf google.

As for prices, palladium is as its been said more expensive than gold, but you only need a tiny bit. Why dont you try and find Ni metal... its not hard, and less expensive than palladium.

-AC



Title: > excuse me rhod, but i cant make the ...
Post by: Osmium on July 13, 2004, 01:51:00 AM
> excuse me rhod, but i cant make the preparations described in your faq.

Then what's the point in asking these questions?

> the commercial sources on internet have outrageous prices.

Get used to it, it worked for me. At my workplace regular platinum metal is considered a cheap material, and I don't even bother anymore when I waste 200mg of it and end up pouring it down the drain. Then again I don't need to pay it out of my own pocket.  :P

>  i read palladium (black is the one i want) can be found otc at "local
> car wreckers', electronic stores, bullions dealers...

Palladium black cannot be found OTC. It needs to be prepared from regular palladium metal or palladium compounds.

Title: Prices
Post by: roger2003 on July 13, 2004, 03:39:00 AM
Today:

Gold    10,36 EUR/g
Pd       5,50 EUR/g
Pt     ~21,00 EUR/g

Title: i better forget palladium.
Post by: skanic on July 13, 2004, 06:33:00 AM
i better forget palladium.
can the reaction (codeine to hydrocodone) be done with nickel ?
Title: > Gold 10,36 EUR/g > Pd 5,50 EUR/g >...
Post by: Osmium on July 14, 2004, 02:44:00 AM
> Gold    10,36 EUR/g
> Pd       5,50 EUR/g
> Pt     ~21,00 EUR/g

Whoa, that's cheap! Compare that to the prices of the usual chemical suppliers, Johnson Matthey wants about 140-200 EUR for a gram of platinum!

Title: very interesting prices, but can it be found...
Post by: skanic on July 14, 2004, 06:09:00 AM
very interesting prices, but can it be found in other places than chem companies? :P
Title: will there be anything else, Sir?
Post by: calcium on July 14, 2004, 02:22:00 PM
Would Skanic like someone to search the internet for him? And what would Sir consider a fair price to pay for his catalyst?

Just go look around and find it. It isn't that hard.

Jeez.
Title: Most jewelers would sell platinum turnings /...
Post by: IRT_agent on July 24, 2004, 05:26:00 PM
Most jewelers sell platinum turnings / dust .