The Vespiary

The Hive => Chemicals & Equipment => Topic started by: frost on July 10, 2000, 10:46:00 AM

Title: cupric chloride
Post by: frost on July 10, 2000, 10:46:00 AM: does anyone know of an otc source of cupric chloride
for krv?
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: Dick_Nastyy on July 10, 2000, 03:24:00 PM: it is used in pottery for glazing.
so go find some

cunt for all and we die happy
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: firecracker on July 10, 2000, 04:09:00 PM: It's also used for etching circuit boards and as a mordant in dyes. But the critical part of the question is the "OTC" acronym. I don't think there are any OTC ways to obtain it, short of buying it OTC at a chem supply house.

I'd be happy if someone proved me wrong.

Snap, Crackle, Pop
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: Antibody2 on July 11, 2000, 06:32:00 AM: It is easily made, purchase copper carbonate from pottery supply and then neutralize using HCl, boil off water and presto cuprous chloride, which is apparently interchangable with cupric chloride in the O2 wacker.

It will be a beautiful emerald green

Life is a dream
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: firecracker on July 11, 2000, 11:52:00 AM: Cuprous will work in the O2?

No shit?

KrZ had mentioned using cupric nitrate as well. So in the O2 Wacker you can use:

- Cupric Chloride
- Cupric Nitrate
- Cuprous Chloride

This should probably be in the newbee forum, but will any copper salt work? I would think the the Copper II salts would be better suited??

Thanks for the educational enlightenment,

Snap, Crackle, Pop
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: frost on July 11, 2000, 04:55:00 PM: thanks everyone!
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: Semtex on July 11, 2000, 06:07:00 PM: It might be possible to simply use the copper carb as the Cu salt... But what the heck would I know...

::) ::)
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: Beaker on July 11, 2000, 08:54:00 PM: If you believe those crazy scienticians and their silly little journal articles, PdCl2/CuCl/H2O/DMF/O2 only gives a 39% yield of MDP2P, with the remainder being isosafrole.
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: Antibody2 on July 11, 2000, 09:36:00 PM: antibody never heard of anyone getting truly kickass yields from the O2 variation except KrZ who claimed 92% using a ghetto reactor.

Life is a dream (until someonew wakes you up)
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: Beaker on July 11, 2000, 10:12:00 PM: Nonsense. Ask Osmium, b1055, or the others who probably just didn't feel the need to repeat what others had already confirmed.
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: Osmium on July 12, 2000, 02:28:00 AM: The others confirmed me :P
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: Antibody2 on July 12, 2000, 09:10:00 AM: Antibody doesn’t disbeleive KrZ, power to him. But he remembers reading lots of posts of O2 ketone that didn’t aminate very well. Antibody beleives that this RXN requires monitoring as alot of the variables are are hard to quantify ie temp, how hard it was shaken, PdCl solvation etc.

Antibody isn’t dissing the method either just pointing out that he didn’t find it quite as simple as he originally thought, and has had more reproducable yields using other wackers.

Life is a dream (until someonew wakes you up)
Title: Post deleted by KrZ
Post by: KrZ on July 12, 2000, 10:33:00 AM
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: firecracker on July 12, 2000, 11:07:00 AM: KrZ,

2 questions:

1) Are you only using an egg-shaped stirbar at high RPM for agitation?

2) You have had success with the Pd Acetate/Cupric Nitrate variation as well?

Thanks much,

Snap, Crackle, Pop
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: Chromic on July 16, 2000, 11:54:00 AM: copper (II) chloride hydrate (emerald green) from copper oxide (black powder) or copper carbonate (light bluish powder) found in pottery store using HCl(aq) is a great way to go. Also can be made from precipitating either the liquid OTC root kill stuff or Preferably the solid copper sulfate hydrate crystals (again, sold as root kill) (medium blue) with baking soda, recovering copper carbonate and using HCl...

I ordered a pound of mine from a chem supplier, but I tried these methods because I was bored. They all work.

any of these methods will never give CuCl (ie cuprous chloride) -- they all yield CuCl2 (cupric chloride).
Title: Re: cupric chloride
Post by: carcrash on December 17, 2002, 04:50:00 AM: Can someone please explain this in a way this non chemist can follow? What solvent used with the baking soda and copper sulfate hydrate? I doubt this is done as a one pot with the hcl as the solvent because the hcl would neutralize the baking soda. Anything needed to clean up the cupric chloride and also the copper carbonate if this is not a one pot shot? Grams or molar amounts would be appreciated.

Chromic wrote
Can be made from precipitating solid copper sulfate hydrate crystals with baking soda, recovering copper carbonate and using HCl.
Not a chemist I just follow directions on the box mix
Title: ???
Post by: PolytheneSam on December 17, 2002, 11:59:00 AM: >Can someone please explain this in a way this non chemist can follow?

I keep seeing this type of thing. People that took chemistry or even just learned a lot of it from books were never taught how to communicate it in "layman's" terms, whatever that is. WE DON'T KNOW HOW TO DO IT!!! Some people seem to make a good attempt at it, but it never looks likes its completely free of modern chemical theory. Solution: learn chemistry yourself. You'd be surprised how much you can learn on your own.

http://www.geocities.com/dritte123/PSPF.html (http://www.geocities.com/dritte123/PSPF.html)

The hardest thing to explain is the obvious
Title: heres my method, in laymans terms
Post by: blaaky on December 17, 2002, 01:22:00 PM: I followed chromic's method.

I bought some of the OTC rootkiller stuff, which was copper sulfate pentahydrate, they were a nice light blue color. I made a saturated solution of this in distilled water in a beaker.

In a second beaker, I made a saturated solution of sodium bicarbonate (baking soda). I then slowly dripped in the Sodium Bicarb solution, and there was a white precipitate, DON'T SHAKE/SWIRL the beaker w/ the precipitate. I added the sodium bicarb solution till the beaker was thick with precipitate then vacuum filtered to obtain fine white powder.

I dried this, then put it in another beaker and added 35% HCl, which bubbled, i kept adding HCl until bubbling stopped, and ended up with a nice green liquid, which I dried on low heat on my hotplate. I ended up with pretty green crystals, which turn brown(anyhdrous) if you heat them longer. They also turn a pretty turquoise (bluegreen) color if you let them sit out and soak up water.

Let me know if you have any questions!

-blaaky
If you want divine justice, die.
Title: Thanks blaaky
Post by: carcrash on December 17, 2002, 05:35:00 PM: Thats as clear as day now.

PolytheneSam I did try both google and tfse before asking. My chemistry knowledge is horribly limited but I have been making serious efforts to increase my knowledge as quickly as possible. I have spent hundreds of hours on tfse and am waiting on a stack of organic chemistry and basic chemistry books. I spent a long time reading the hive before I ever created an account. It is not an excuse, there is just so much to learn and only so many hours in the day.
Not a chemist I just follow directions on the box mix