The Hive => Tryptamine Chemistry => Topic started by: yellium on July 18, 2000, 03:37:00 PM
Title: Using Red-Al instead of LAH..
Post by: yellium on July 18, 2000, 03:37:00 PM
As subject says: can you also use red-al to reduce interesting glyoxylamides instead of LAH? The doctor uses it for MBT and 2-Me-DMT, but I'm a bit unsure on the reaction times/temperature for DMT and DET. Anyone got references/info?
(another stupid question: I can't figure out if you need to combine the water wash and the acidic extraction after you've quenched the reaction.)
Title: Re: Using Red-Al instead of LAH..
Post by: terbium on October 07, 2000, 06:27:00 PM
Is Red-Al any easier to obtain the LiAlH4?
Title: Re: Using Red-Al instead of LAH..
Post by: yellium on October 08, 2000, 08:19:00 AM
Nope.
And to answer my own question:Red-Al can be used for DMT & friends. After addition at 0'C, a few hours at +40'C do the job. After quenching & filtering the toluene solution, wash with water to remove the 2-methoxyethanol (yuk!), throw away the water washes, then extract with 0.5M HCl, & do a standard A/B on the HCl extracts.
Title: Re: Using Red-Al instead of LAH..
Post by: halfapint on October 09, 2000, 06:10:00 PM
Yellium,
Having answered your own question to your own satisfaction, could you expand on it a bit more in case anyone else might bee interested? I mean, are these glyoxylamides the result of reacting oxalyl chloride with indole and a dialkylamine? I'd suppose so, but you're being stingy with words, for those of us who don't fall asleep with TIhKaL on the pillow. Pray tell, what is Red-Al? Is it the same as the aluminum amalgam as used in the phenylacetone reductive aminations next door? Or is an activated type of aluminum dust? Give me a few more words, make me happy. I've been looking (you wouldn't believe how long) for a reliable, verified alternative to LAH in that particular reduction, and to be tittilated by a cryptic teaser like this is frustrating. So please say it again, but just tell me what you're talking about this time. turning science fact into << science fiction >>
Title: Re: Using Red-Al instead of LAH..
Post by: terbium on October 09, 2000, 06:49:00 PM
Red-Al (AKA Vitride) is a toluene solution of sodium bis(2-methoxyethoxy)aluminum hydride. It is available from a major U.S. based supplier of organic reagents.
Its only advantage over LiAlH4 is that it is a liquid which makes it easy to work with in large quantities than LAH.
Title: Re: Using Red-Al instead of LAH..
Post by: yellium on October 10, 2000, 03:26:00 AM
Another advantage is that it reacts quicker than LiAlH4. LAH reductions usually take a day at reflux; Red-Al reductions can be done in a few hours. But it is indeed a more esoteric chemical.
halfapint: yup, these amides were obtained using the oxalylchloride/indole/dialkylamine route. Red-Al isn't OTC. OTOH, if you're in a position where you could order oxalylchloride, I think the Red-Al wouldn't be much of a problem.
Title: Re: Using Red-Al instead of LAH..
Post by: Rhodium on October 10, 2000, 03:49:00 AM
A disadvantage is that it is more expensive than LAH per available hydride ion.