The Vespiary

The Hive => Chemistry Discourse => Topic started by: lutesium on June 22, 2004, 03:54:00 AM

Title: Mescaline Advice Needed
Post by: lutesium on June 22, 2004, 03:54:00 AM

This is my first post to my one and only love - THE HIVE..!!

(Im UTFSE ing for 2 YEARS without a making single post so dont flame me. I
really need your advice.)

Swim wants your advice for the best route to mesc. starting from pyrogallol.
For reduction Na metal or NaBH4  can be used. Shoud you

Pyrogallol---+dimethyl sulfate-> Trimethoxy pyrogallol --halomethylation-> 2,3,4 Trimethoxy Benzyl Bromide ---NaCN---> 2,3,4 Trimethoxy Benzyl Cyanide ---H--> Mesc

or is there another way which seems better (easier and higher yielding) to you?  Especially the bromomethylation and with playing w/ NaCN seems problematic to swim but he did it before for many times and he can handle.

Just give me some advice and I would be grateful if you link me to some good posts about this subject.

Thanx

Title: mescaline advice...
Post by: java on June 22, 2004, 04:46:00 AM

Read about what some have  to say about your route proposed.......

Post 303631 (missing)

(zed: "Not easy!", General Discourse)

some suggestions.....

Post 304555 (missing)

(zed: "Maybe.", General Discourse)

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/mescalyptus.html (https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/mescalyptus.html)

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/mescaline.alkaloids.html (https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/mescaline.alkaloids.html)

here is another place to look...

http://www.mescaline.com/synth/ (http://www.mescaline.com/synth/)

http://www.maps.org/forum/1998/msg00321.html (http://www.maps.org/forum/1998/msg00321.html)

this should get you going.........java

Title: UTFSE!
Post by: Rhodium on June 22, 2004, 04:46:00 AM

Post 514603 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=7649.msg51460300#msg51460300)

(Mephisto: "Scan: TMBA from Vanillin - Synthesis 308 (1983)", Chemistry Discourse)

Post 514141 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=7234.msg51414100#msg51414100)

(psyloxy: "3,4,5 precursors revisited", Chemistry Discourse)

Post 514596 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=9411.msg51459600#msg51459600)

(Rhodium: "Many routes to 3,4,5-Trimethoxybenzaldehyde", Methods Discourse)

Post 345054 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=9411.msg34505400#msg34505400)

(slothrop: "3,4,5-TMB from p-Cresol", Methods Discourse)

Title: don't start from pyrogallol
Post by: xxxxx on June 22, 2004, 08:54:00 PM

i have read that 2,3,4-trimethoxy phenethylamine is inactive, however 2,3-methylenedioxy 4-methoxy phenethylamine is active. this was plausibly explained as being because the rotation of the 2-methoxy group interfers with the ethylamine when it is binding to the receptors, when this is constrained as a 2,3-methylenedioxy ring activity is preserved. if you have 3,4,5 trimethoxy gallic acid maybe you could 1)condense the ethyl ester with ethyl acetate using sodium ethoxide to form (ch3o)3c6h2coch2cooc2h5 2)reduce the ketone to (ch3o)3c6h2ch2ch2cooc2h5 3)add ethanolic ammonia to form (ch3o)3c6h2ch2ch2conh2 4)add naocl to form (ch3o)c6h2ch2ch2nh2. i have posted this elsewhere and people said it might work.
if it doesn't you probably won't be as badly off as if you used a process involving cyanide.

Title: 4-Methoxy-2,3-Methylenedioxy-PEA
Post by: Rhodium on June 22, 2004, 09:36:00 PM

i have read that 2,3,4-trimethoxy phenethylamine is inactive, however 2,3-methylenedioxy 4-methoxy phenethylamine is active.

What is your source for that statement? I can only find four literature citations on the latter compound, and as far as I know the substance has never been tried in man.


4-Methoxy-2,3-Methylenedioxy-PEA:

Heterocycles 45(9), 1751-1758 (1997)
Phytochemistry 28(7), 1967-1972 (1989)
Chem.Nat.Compd.(Engl.Transl.); EN; 21; 6; 1985; 777-782; (Khim.Prir.Soedin.; RU; 6; 1985; 818-823)
Chem.Nat.Compd.(Engl.Transl.); EN; 29; 3; 1993; 341-345; (Khim.Prir.Soedin.; RU; 3; 1993; 404-409)

Title: read it in a book
Post by: xxxxx on June 22, 2004, 11:17:00 PM

i can't provide the reference for this statement. even if i could it would likely be difficult to locate the citation. anyway 2,3,4 trimethoxy phenethylamine is not mescaline.

Title: Oh all my fault I didnt mean 2,3,4 rather 3,4,5
Post by: lutesium on June 22, 2004, 11:39:00 PM

Thanks for all replies you've been really helpful showing me alternatives to the
undeliciate route to I proposed

And I would like to read some articles about the drug-receptor-effect
relationship especially over the phenethylamine or indole releated.
I have questions bugging my mind like say what that 4- position means
to someones brain creating different effects over the same molecule or say
what does the length of a hydrocarbon chain means to the receptors?
What are the strategy/methodology for rhe creation of phenethylamine
derivatives and so on
If you have these kind of articles to post/link here I would
appreciate it SOOOO much

Title: Structure-Affinity Relationships (SAR)
Post by: Rhodium on June 23, 2004, 03:53:00 AM

I believe that you are looking for these threads:

Post 500985 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=12420.msg50098500#msg50098500)

(Rhodium: "Shulgin: 90 pages of Psychedelic SAR", Serious Chemistry)

Post 453382 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=12368.msg45338200#msg45338200)

(Rhodium: "Related SAR article, with DOF/DOI/DON synth", Serious Chemistry)

Title: 2,3,4-PEA
Post by: hest on June 23, 2004, 12:51:00 PM

Are we talking abouth this one ??

Pihkal #91 IM (Isomescaline; 2,3,4-Trimethoxyphenethylamine) (http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal091.shtml)

(http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal091.shtml)

Title: start..
Post by: chilly_willy on June 23, 2004, 09:24:00 PM

Try this... vanillin --> bromovanillin --> hydroxyvanillin --> TMBenzaldehyde -->TMBnS-->Mescaline via. Zinc/HCl ala. leminger (search Rhodium).  The only real problems here would be the labor involved and acquiring either DMSulfate/MeIodide.  Everything else required can be obtained locally or through the normal routes.  If you look hard enough it might even be possible to locate the trimethoxybenzaldehyde commercially..and from there it would be two relatively easy steps.

Title: thank you all.!!!
Post by: lutesium on June 23, 2004, 11:21:00 PM

Thank you all for your replies. Without you I would try for at least a week to achieve this much info. (AND SAR IS GREAT!! )


But swim has a uncommon problem.  has dms, a fumehood and a good place to work but he cannot obtain any nitromethane cuz its forbidden. He will run the experiment at most 10gr scale for once and he doesnt need much nitro he knows.. but there is none and none is none. Making it is also a hassle as much as I know from Kolbes synth starting from chloracetic acid. Making the latter percusor is hard and its too expensive to obtain for such small yields that wont even make you feel to distill it :(

I searched for many weeks and read most threads about the R-No2 stuff but none of the routes seem appealing. Is there something that Im missing? If the r-no2 problem is solved swim also has ethylenediamine

Title: ?
Post by: hest on June 24, 2004, 12:31:00 PM

Are you asking us to mail you a sample ?????

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/nitroalkane.html (https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/nitroalkane.html)

Don't know where you live, but it is OTC in manye part of the world (hi octane fuel ect)

Title: no I didnt mean that
Post by: lutesium on June 24, 2004, 06:21:00 PM

I just wanted you to post a route that will start the you know: Read, get excited, go out, purchase, synth. , get excited again " cycle. No route is "so great" to cause swim to even try (even when in a manic state where anything seems possible but r-No2 dont :(

Title: DMS Route seems acceptable but they say ...
Post by: lutesium on June 24, 2004, 06:41:00 PM

DMS Route seems acceptable but they say shake??  stirring  the dms+nano2 will be sufficent I think. Is this true?

Title: start with 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde.
Post by: cattleprodder on June 26, 2004, 10:43:00 AM

Problem #1:  You don't have 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde right now.

Like chilly_willy said, do some internet searching for OTI (over the internet) 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde.  This is the first step which will save you much trouble later on, as the battle to synth M will be 1/2 way won as soon as your package arrives.  Make sure you find a shady source.

Problem #2:  You can't get nitromethane.

In the latter case you have pretty much already answered this dilemma in your very first post of this thread.  Namely, 3,4,5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde plus sodium borohydride followed by thionyl chloride followd by sodium cyanide followed by lithium aluminum hydride. 

It can be done this way, but if I were you I would research the ingredients of commercially available race car fuel before giving up on the MeNO2 route.

Happy Mescaline Chasing

Title: thanx for reply
Post by: lutesium on June 27, 2004, 08:47:00 PM

Your advices offered me a wide range of possiblities much thanks.
I found out that my local chem company offers nitroalkanes in 250ml quantities along with the 3,4,5 trimeo bzal so this synth will be easy. Can you lead me to some imformative posts about the condensation considering that swim has ethylenediamine if it offers an advantage.

Thanx

Love You

Title: Your local chem company might also have an...
Post by: moo on June 27, 2004, 09:51:00 PM

Your local chem company might also have an idea of what those chemicals can be used for.

Title: M
Post by: GC_MS on June 27, 2004, 10:28:00 PM

I found out that my local chem company offers nitroalkanes in 250ml quantities along with the 3,4,5 trimeo bzal so this synth will be easy. Can you lead me to some imformative posts about the condensation considering that swim has ethylenediamine if it offers an advantage.

Mescalinic benzaldehyde (  8)  ) is a watched chemical, so you might want to be careful with your orders. The benzaldehyde is often used in medicinal and natural compound chemistry, so it is not impossible to get a hold on it. But I doubt the trick of the candle-and-soap factory will work for this specific benzaldehyde. Unless you are very sure about your supplier, don't order it. Use one of the recently posted 3.4.5-trimethoxybenzaldehyde syntheses starting from vanillin. They really work! Ask my synapses where all the M came from  ;) .

And if you still plan to order it from your supplier, at least be wise enough NOT to order these compounds from the same supplier in the same order. You'd be asking from troubles.

Title: mescaline advice...
Post by: java on June 30, 2004, 10:29:00 PM

As I was going through the files I read this and thought of your project.......java

Post 414469 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=11616.msg41446900#msg41446900)

(Vitus_Verdegast: "alternative routes to mescaline", Novel Discourse)