The Hive > Stimulants
"True Blue" NH3/Li reduction ie birch
ordinaryguy:
Man! Just gotta dig that enthusiastic post!!$^%&^ Are all of your posts so passionate? Swim gets her NH3 from a daring source that retrieves it from a cooling system in a cold storage facility so she has not too much to offer on NH3 generation. Although the process is relatively simple. It envolves manipulating a base with a more aggressive base which is a minimal rxn! Swim believes the hard part is getting the system to withstand the required amount of pressure without leaking that dasterdly smell. Otherwise the system can be dissasembled into ordinary garage type equipment relatively quickly. The other difficult part would be the time required with focused attention. Mr clean mentioned I believe 8 hours to produce 500ml. Keep in mind, this isn't really that big of investment considering he obtained enough NH3 to reduce 60 Grams of ephedrine freebase. Not a bad return in my eyes. If this could be done in 8 hours then I would imagine one could retro fit the generator with a double rxn chamber thus doubling the production. It would require a bit of Mcgyvering to assure one rxn vessel didn't compete with the other but is very achievable. There are options available to using NH3 to begin with. Keep in mind that the reason the rxn is executed with NH3 is to attain the low temperature required to dissolve the Li. Other than that it plays no role in the actual reduction of the ephedrine molecule. Having this been said, a little bit of leg work on some convicted individuals part, researching the "Benkeser" rxn would identify plenty of alternative cooling reagents that could be either obtained or sythisized as easily as NH3 is extracted from fertilizer. Not only that but the reagents that can be substituted are not as dangerous or as smelly as NH3. NH3 is very dangerous and should never be taken lightly. It can literally steal the H2O from the walls of your lungs leaving you with raisins to breath(or attempt to)-Just figuratively speaking of course. I will be continuing my research on an alternative to NH3 for various reasons. Around here it costs quite a bundle to aquire, and living in the atmosphere swim does generation is just not an option. If swim chose a different site to generate then someone else would certainly have to aquire knowledge about her activities in the cooler which might not be such a good idea. Too many fingers in the .... you know. Any how the "benkeser" rxn is the correct name for the rxn utilizing NH3/Li and references various other solvents for Li. A little studying need be done but there is definately room for a huge breakthrough here. I hope I beat you to it in spilling the good news amongst the oppressed whom are waiting. Start by doing a body search at "The -Hive" and "Rhodium" on this rxn and go from there. Birch is not the proper name for this rxn. It just has been so commonly misused over the years that it has been deemed an acceptable term. Lets get shit straightened out! Then people can find the information they are searching for instead of some slang missed information. This may be a good thread to post any new information you may discover on this subject. People are beginning to respond. Possibly we can motivate the masses and get the real wizards supporting us on this venture. Thanks again for your enthusiasm. It is quite refreshing and if I was sitting next to you, I'd give you swim's favorite glass toy!
ordinaryguy:
Hey there Biggie, just thought I'd drop you a line and let you know that I discovered the correct spelling of the rxn to be "Benkeser". Not to be critical of your spelling or anything but I figured maybe we could save some fellow "Hivernators" the trouble of searching without success due to one letter. Thanks again for your inquiry and I was wondering if anything I responded on question number one proved to be accurate or not. Also I was wondering if you ever recieved an answer on the proper mole ratio for this rxn using Hcl in liu of freebase. I was looking over your past posts and this seemed to be one that you didn't ever get a straight answer on. TIA for any insite or ridicule you may convey. It's all part of learning in my opinion.
Prepuce:
It's definitely time to explore alternatives, IMHO (SWIM's, that is.) SWIP started to try one of the birch write-ups, and he doesn't recall who the poster was, but it gave instructions on generating NH3 with little or no odorm, using tubing and fittings for an irrigation system. What stopped him from going on with the plan was the painful discovery that the vinyl irrigation parts do not hold up to HI at all. That doesn't mean it would be a problem in a birch, but he decided he wouldn't risk it.
Other than the possibility of a leak, SWIM was wondering if Weaz had thought of venting through a drain pipe, as has so often been discussed wirh regard to RP/I reactions. As long as no huge quantities of NH3 are involved, it would seem to SWIP that the neighbor problem wouldn't be a big one.
Birch sounds like a good shot for many bees. If a really good procedure for generation/containment of the NH3 could be developed there might be a lot more interested bees.
PP
bigdumbnut:
Just Kidding. I can't remember if I dropped out of school during or after 11th Grade.People will learn what interests them regardless of formal education so long as they don't question their intelligence.
Sorry about the misspelling. I even rechecked the name (on the Hive of course) while writing that post. I think I'll do better once I learn to use both finger while typing. You seem to be a quick study. You're correct about gassing resulting in crystals Ive just considered it otherwise since I've never seen it in that state that was transparent or tranlucent or dazzling while I have with Titration. The gassing came about with many posts suggesting it superior in the "War on Pill Fuckers" and it does wonders on impatients.
No offense but I don't think your method of measuring purity is accurate but this from someone who questions any method. When I was a kid everything was supposedly broken down to protons, neutrons, and electrons. I've lost track of how many atomic building blocks there are now, this all falling under the catagory of Quantun Mechanics I believe. The smaller these things become the farther it gets from known physics and closer to mysticism such as "the Dancing Wooly Masters" or Taoism and some highly accredited physicist believe everything brakes down to one common thing(?), a Vibrating String. With this in mind I'm not sure we can quantitatively analize 2 substances and say they are the the same and what they're made of.
Please excuse my diahrea of the keyboard. I believe it's from recent results to answer (at least to me) this Molarity thing.The best vague answers so far have been:
1. 2 moles Li / 1 mole pseudo
2. " " " " " " pseudo fb = 1 battery /11.2 fb
3. 3 " " " " " pseudo HCl = " " / 9.1 HCl
4. 1 AA batery (.94 gram) / 7 grams pseudo fb -doesn't
match 1, 2, or 3 and seems like too much excess to
cover impurities.
Recently I heard of a dream where there was 11.5 grams of what seemed to be clean Pseodoephedrine HCl extracted from white 60's with a ton of crap in them. They were boiled for 10 min (2X)in carb cleaner containing Acetone and Toluene. They were then pulled with 99% isopropal Alcohol 3X with heat allowed to settle somewhat for 1/2 hour and filtered thru 1 coffee filter. Still pretty cloudy but that's OK. Heated to boiling and held there with ice filled cup as cold finger for 1 hour.Right before boiling NaOH (lye)was sprinkled in. As the lye would settle on the bottom after stirring, DH2O was added until most lye dissolved. This can cause a fountain of meat tenderiser all over your body. The ugly on the bottom layer was seperated from the top and discarded. The top layer dryed in Epsom, gassed and recrystalized yeilding 53%.
Now approximately 300ml of refrigerant grade NH3 with no detectable refrigerant oil (alkylbenzene)was added to a HDPE 2 quart jug nestled in dry ice. Peeled baterries (2)in Camp fuel and the suzy in a container were already in the dry ice getting cold.The suzy was added first and stirred with a rod of UHMW til dissolved (?). About 1/6 of a battry at a time was added till blue stayed for afew seconds the ittybitty pieces until blue stayed a while (10 min this time)Stirred occaisionlly for another 15 min then pulled out of ice put under window with heavy fan flow. Then left the house for 4 hours. 1.2 bateries was used for 11.5 Pseudo HCl which equates to 2.85 moles Li / 1 mole Pseudo HCl. The final yield was not calculated due to too many finger in the pie. It wasn't anything to write home about but the quality iswas beter than I've seen since staying at a lab/ commune in the sixties.
I know my thoughts here are incomplete and scattered (and forgetabout my spelling)but that's all I'm good for right now
up247365:
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