Author Topic: Electro solvent  (Read 1924 times)

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masterofpuppets

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Electro solvent
« on: December 31, 2001, 02:23:00 AM »
If one was having difficulty finding a solvent to disolve a substance, could a certain bee just use a solvent with a similar specific gravity to the substance to hold it, and then carry out an electrolysis reaction.

I guess that simply, what I am asking is whether or not a substance has to be disolved in a solvent for it to be electrically reduced.

You are unique....just like everyone else.......

terbium

  • Guest
Re: Electro solvent
« Reply #1 on: December 31, 2001, 07:09:00 AM »
If one was having difficulty finding a solvent to disolve a substance, could a certain bee just use a solvent with a similar specific gravity to the substance to hold it, and then carry out an electrolysis reaction.
No.

I guess that simply, what I am asking is whether or not a substance has to be disolved in a solvent for it to be electrically reduced.
Yes.


Still trying to electroreduce phenylalanine?


masterofpuppets

  • Guest
Re: Electro solvent
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2002, 08:42:00 AM »
Hey, why would I ever want to electro reduce phenylalanine???  I mean, what would be the point of that???  :P

Although, if one did want to do that, how would u suggest that one solves the problem of a solvent?

Oh, found an electro chem book that mentioned that in concentrated sulfuric acid (60+%) that carboxylic acids could be reduced at a lead electrode.  Anyone heard/tried this??

You are unique....just like everyone else.......

Prdy2GO

  • Guest
Re: Electro solvent
« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2002, 07:08:00 AM »
Oh, found an electro chem book that mentioned that in concentrated sulfuric acid (60+%) that carboxylic acids could be reduced at a lead electrode.  Anyone heard/tried this??

Yes what about it?

Don't look at me I didn't do it!

joyman

  • Guest
Re: Electro solvent
« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2002, 08:43:00 AM »
master,

whats wrong with propelyene carbonate?. from what i read although phenylalanine is only slightly soluble, wouldnt it make sense to just use small ammounts gaa to keep the ratio in molar order (ie a 1/3 phenylalanine to acetic - need an excess to avoid phenylalanine forming a dimer with itself). you would then have very weak solution of phenylalanine and gaa. you could continuously add the acetic acid as it gets used up and as more phenylalanine disolves. i dont see that the fact phenylalanine is only slightly soluble is a real problem (make it a process of continuously adding phenylalanine and gaa). - but then im no chemist.

whats this reduction your talking about? - sounds interesting - is it to an alcohol or all the way to Me.

foxy2

  • Guest
Re: Electro solvent
« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2002, 08:59:00 AM »
Ummm, Are these guys trying to do what master wants?
;D  :)  8)   This article looks like the shit

Strategy for controlling the Kolbe electrosynthesis in the presence of aromatic fragments and amino groups in the molecule.    
Smirnova, N. V.; Neganova, E. G.; Astaf'ev, E. A.; Petrii, O. A.; Tsirlina, G. A.; Beletskaya, I. P.   
Southern Russian State Technical University,  Russia.
Russ. J. Electrochem.  (2001),  37(9),  893-898. 
Journal  written in English.   

Abstract
A general characteristic of processes that occur during anodic oxidn. of phenylacetic and phenylpropionic acids and derivs. of a- and b-amino acids on platinum electrodes in methanol and mixed pyridine-methanol solns. is given.  From preparative electrolyzes in stagnant and flow-through reactors, conditions are detd. under which the dimerization (Kolbe electrosynthesis) is least complicated by the formation of polymer products.  Properties of removed electrodes, on which stable polymer films formed during the electrosynthesis, are examd.  For films formed in certain conditions on the cathode, the presence of a quasi-reversible redox transition is demonstrated.  Such films contain disperse platinum codeposited with polymer as a result of the anode dissoln. in the cells with common compartments.  In principle, the film-modified electrodes can be used for controlling anodic decarboxylation.

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Emulsion electrosynthesis in the presence of power ultrasound. Biphasic Kolbe coupling processes at platinum and boron-doped diamond electrodes.    
Wadhawan, J. D.; Del Campo, F. J.; Compton, R. G.; Foord, J. S.; Marken, F.; Bull, S. D.; Davies, S. G.; Walton, D. J.; Ryley, S.   
Physical and Theoretical Chemistry Laboratory,  Oxford University,  Oxford,  UK.   
J. Electroanal. Chem.  (2001),  507(1-2),  135-143.
 
Abstract
The electrochem. oxidn. of aliph. carboxylic acids, hexanoic, heptanoic, and lauric acid, under biphasic conditions was studied as a model system for ultrasound enhanced Kolbe electrosynthesis processes.  Power ultrasound was used to generate an in situ emulsified medium and to remove reaction products continuously from the electrode surface.  A clean and highly efficient process at platinum electrodes with formation of 'one electron' products only occurs in marked contrast to processes in monophasic media.  For hexanoic acid the Kolbe dimer product R-R is formed in up to 75% yield with 45% current efficiency at 0.18 A cm-2 c.d. and in the presence of 190 W cm-2 ultrasound.  The mechanism is explained in terms of a dynamically modified electrode surface, at which hydrophobic products are immediately 'trapped' via partitioning into a nonpolar org. phase and transported away into the emulsion system.  Kolbe electrosynthesis is undertaken both at platinum electrodes and at free-standing polycryst. boron-doped diamond electrodes, to minimize the surface erosion effect induced by power ultrasound.  The type and yield of products obtained from the biphasic Kolbe electrolysis process at diamond electrodes are essentially identical to those obsd. at platinum and based on this observation, the presence of a biphasic reaction layer at the electrode surface is postulated to govern the process. 

Citations
1) Fees, H; Techniques of Electroorganic Synthesis Part 3 1981, 81
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Novel synthesis of some specialty chemicals by electroorganic reaction.     Nishiguchi, Ikuzo; Hirahsima, Tsuneaki; Shundo, Ryushi; Matsubara, Yoshiharu.    Osaka Munic. Tech. Res. Inst.,  Osaka,  Japan.  Editor(s): Little, R. Daniel; Weinberg, Norman L.    Electroorg. Synth., [Manuel M. Baizer Meml. Symp.]  (1991),  Meeting Date 1990,     331-9.  Publisher: Dekker,  New York, N. Y
General Review  written in English.
  
Abstract
New electrosynthetic methods are reviewed for some specialty chems., such as synthesis of Nojigiku alc. from tricyclene, stereoselective cleavage of polycyclic methylcyclopropanes by anodic oxidn. synthesis of bis(4-nitrophenyl)sulfone and bis(4-nitrophenyl)sulfoxide by anodic oxidn. and synthesis of penicillanic acid derivs. by electrooxidn.  Novel synthesis of 1-triacontanol by mixed Kolbe's coupling and electroreductive C-acylation of arom. carboxylic acids and epinephrine derivs. are described.

 

Foxy STILL needs to get laid!!!

masterofpuppets

  • Guest
Re: Electro solvent
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2002, 09:05:00 AM »
Prdy2GO: I was curious if it would "go all the way" to reducing the cooh to ch3.

Everyone else although both DMF and propylene carbonate work as solvents, I am attempting to find ways to make this synth work which is totally OTC/just using very common chems - therefore preventing restriction by the nasty authorities.



You are unique....just like everyone else.......

PolytheneSam

  • Guest
>Oh, found an electro chem book that mentioned ...
« Reply #7 on: June 03, 2002, 02:03:00 AM »
>Oh, found an electro chem book that mentioned that in concentrated sulfuric acid (60+%) that carboxylic acids could be reduced at a lead electrode.  Anyone heard/tried this??

I have a reference on an experiment where benzoic acid (in dilute sulfuric acid) is reduced electrochemically to benzyl alcohol using a prepared lead cathode.

http://www.geocities.com/dritte123/PSPF.html
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