Author Topic: Mushroom surface sterilization  (Read 12565 times)

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Yachaj

  • Guest
This technique may work for bacteria, but only if ...
« Reply #40 on: September 05, 2002, 04:49:00 AM »
This technique may work for bacteria, but only if said mycelium has already been exposed to the peroxide and developed the proper enzymes.  A sterile environment is nessisary to transfer the culture to the awaiting peroxide treated agar.  At the point of transfer, if a foreighn fungus decides to attach itself to the culture, it can piggyback and grow through right along with the cubensis mycelium.  Your proposed method would work IF the peroxide treated agar specifically killed off all other forms of mycelium save cubensis, but it is not, it only kills off the spores etc...

GOD stop talking *theory*. Bottom inoculation works. In a total unsterile room. Yes a wedge of mycelium can be cut from an agar plate and transferred to a virgin peroxidated agarplate. All table-top no HEPA no glovebox no PC.

See the slideshow at

http://www.mycomasters.com/Slideshow.html



Now get some real experience before you post dammit!

Yachaj

bibliopharmacophile

Yachaj

  • Guest
How did you use it as spawn?
« Reply #41 on: September 05, 2002, 04:57:00 AM »
How did you use it as spawn? did you sterilize with a pressure cooker?

At first I did. But later I learned that a mixtures of
- millet and chopped wheatstraw
- millet and beech chips

can be sterilized in a milkpan. Sterilized defined as 'from a dozen of shotglasses not a single one got contaminated in two weeks after the boiling treatment'. Glasses were put on the tv in the living room during that time.

Yachaj

bibliopharmacophile

Yachaj

  • Guest
Tyndallization
« Reply #42 on: September 05, 2002, 05:01:00 AM »
Oops - this just popped in when I entered my previous post.

I think my milkpan sterilization was successfull because the millet was boiled&drained one day before the sterilization in the glass with beechchips.

This was done to prevent water collection on the bottom, but it resulted in a double boilingtime, separated by a 24hour period at roomtemperature aka. 'Tyndallization'!

Yachaj

bibliopharmacophile

bujinkan

  • Guest
the slideshow is about wood loving species.
« Reply #43 on: September 05, 2002, 05:03:00 AM »
the slideshow is about wood loving species. the substrate consists of fiber pellets, sawdust, etc. Sterility isnt as key an issue with substrates such as these since the range of potential contaminants is considerably smaller. what species of shroom were you considering using with these techniques?


Yachaj, hydrogen peroxide is used often to battle off certain contaminants in casings and such....cobweb mold for example. it is a well known fact that h202 does inhibit mycelium growth...not completely but it does nontheless.

 


If I'm reading this correctly, and I like to think that I am.....

bujinkan

  • Guest
oh where do i begin
« Reply #44 on: September 05, 2002, 05:39:00 AM »
I mean - mix 2 volume parts of vermiculite, 1 volume part of powdered brown rice, 1 volume part of tapwater until it is moist and airy. Put everyting in a 250ml shotglass. Top it off with a layer of dry vermiculite of two fingers deep&cover with aluminium foil. Boil for 1 hour in milkpan, cool down & inject sporewater. After a couple of weeks 15-20 percent of the dry weight of the rice is converted in dried cubensis with unopened caps. Potency = 0.5g of dried mushrooms yield a +2 Shulgin Scale.

Besides the inoculation and harvesting it is all completely maintenance free. Drying is not even needed since the mushrooms can be preserved for 3 months at 4 centigrade in unharvested, not-illegal fresh condition (put the glass in th fridge until you are ready for them). After the glass is put at roomtemp, harvest the mushrooms within 48 hours and leave the glass alone. New shrooms


uhm. ok. for those that dont know, he is talking here about growing 'invitro'. (or at least we are led to assume so) What this means is that while normally the 'cake' of mycelium is removed from its container and placed into a terrarium prior to pinning, using the invitro technique the mycelium cake is left inside the container. I have done this before...and yes, it does work. what you get is usually a mass of stems and some unopened caps. The stems do push themselves around substrate and you will get some, but space is still limited, so size and quantity of your shrooms are reduced. If you harvest once then replace, you run a good risk of contaminating your cake..
the statement about drying not being needed is not very accurate.. you can store them, but if you induced pinning then there will be rot, even in low temps. (that is if the mold doesnt get them first)
fresh mushrooms are illegal in many places because they do contain psilocybin and psilocin...i dont know what country you are from but here in the US storing shrooms like that is legally the same as having the same amount dried, except you might also get in trouble for the obvious cultivation that is going on.
 

If I'm reading this correctly, and I like to think that I am.....

GOD

  • Guest
Oh Jesus... You lured me back.
« Reply #45 on: September 05, 2002, 05:43:00 AM »
Oh Jesus...

You lured me back. 
Its worth bad karma for me to say this (actually, I think I desirve good karma for it), so listen to what I have to say, and if anything hurts your feelings or threatens your ego too bad.

First off, when swim refers to second hand experiance, and follows it up with a  ;) , that means its beeing said tounge in cheek you moron.

Second, just because this is mainly a chemistry forum, does not mean that there arent bee's floating around who havent done other things, dont think that your impressing anyone coming here with a bunch of bullshit that you tacked together because your too damned lazy to go about doing things the right way -or doing things at all for that matter.  Coming here and doing this crap is wasting both our time, your time, and bandwidth.  Im sorry to say, it does NOT make you look intelligent (if thats what your trying to do) and your only contribution to this forum is wasting other peoples time, energy and possibly money. Actually, if someone reads through the entire thread, and see's how everybody responds to your proposal, and actually follows through with it- they probably desirve the frustration.

When I first started replying to your posts, I could tell IMMEDIATLY that you had not tried what you are talking about, because I assumed that most people wouldnt go through so much effort to intentionally make misinforming posts.  You have been corrected on numerous holes in your proposed plan -yet you persist.  Ask yourself 'why?' if your capable.  My bet is that you wont because you are too concearned about how you appear to a bunch of faceless computer geeks to actually step back and take some constructive critisism. 

I am done wasting my time arguing technical points with you, as it is apparent you dont know what your talking about (editted).  

MODS: please, either lock this thread or put some of those fancy labels on this crap this guy is wasting bandwidth with.  Its misinforming.


"All that we are is the result of all that we have thought."
-Buddha

bujinkan

  • Guest
Suffice it to say
« Reply #46 on: September 05, 2002, 05:59:00 AM »
Suffice it to say that any interested newb seeing this thread should do some reading of their own. Yachaj presents many ideas, some of which are inefficient, some of which are outdated, most of which will lead you to disappointing contaminations. As much as we would like to get around sterile practice in mushroom cultivation, we cant. theres no substitute for cleanliness.
In my experience, the greatest yeilds, photo verified, have come from straw, dung or millet casings. period. 
I cant make sense of yachajs points either, and it seems he is trying to put forth several techniques at once. at best they serve to muddle newbees ideas on mush cult.

I agree that the thread should be locked, since yachaj doesnt want to seem to stop manipulating facts and posting unrelated links solely for the sake of prolonging an argument...which is what i believe is happening here.

if you are interested in shroom growing and are new, read this stuff:
Magic Mushroom Growers Guide..essential reading.

http://www.shroomery.org/findorgrowthem.php?View=docs&doc=16



  a pf tek overview from Anno: As soon as you cultivate mushrooms indoor on artificially prepared substrate you create conditions than not only favor the growth of the mushrooms you attempt to grow but also of an immense number of other organisms, many of them hazardous to the health.
To make sure that only the chosen mushroom is cultivated, it is of great importance to assure cleanliness in all growing related procedures.
Before work wash your hands with antibacterial soap and warm water, afterwards wipe dry rub with Lysol or isopropyl-alcohol.Keep the rooms where you do the inoculation and fruiting dust free and clean and don´t bring in dirty clothing or shoes. Equally important is personal hygiene, dirty hair for instance is a hotbed for all kinds of unwanted microorganisms which can do much harm to your cultivation project, same with dirty hands.

(from the article:

http://www.fungifun.com/pf/pf_en.htm

)

http://shroomery.org/faq/faq.php?list=all&prog=1&lang=en




heres some links on birdseed and whole grains

http://www.mycotopia.net/teks/birdseed.html


http://www.theforestfloor.org/archives/drooldonkey_teks/quartjars.html


Yachaj

  • Guest
Try me!
« Reply #47 on: September 05, 2002, 12:13:00 PM »

Bujinkanwhat species of shroom were you considering using with these techniques?

Oysters, Hericium, King Stropharia and other wood loving Psilocybes. A peroxidated mixture of wood pellets and maltose/marmite broth supports sclerotia production of Ps. tampanensis as well.

hydrogen peroxide is used often to battle off certain contaminants in casings and such....cobweb mold for example.

...unfortunately that doesn't work too well. The reason is that the peroxide is deactivated by the enzymes of the mycelium. So if a mold, any mold, is already past the spore germination stage then peroxide is of no help! 

it is a well known fact that h202 does inhibit mycelium growth...not completely but it does nontheless.

Only when a mycelium first contacts a substrate which is rich in peroxide. But it adapts fast. A plate of h2o2 agar is colonized in just as many days as a plate of non-peroxidated agar. Plus, peroxide helps in breaking down the substrate too. In some cases the net effect can be an acceleration of mycelial growth!

[the invitro method] does work. what you get is usually a mass of stems and some unopened caps. The stems do push themselves around substrate and you will get some, but space is still limited, so size and quantity of your shrooms are reduced.

Whoa! The efficiency I mentioned about (15-20 percent of the dry weight of the brown rice powder converted into dry mushrooms) was achieved with this method (and a suitable mushroom genotype - PF Stropharia)! About the look of the mushrooms which are cultivated in this style: once they are dried you can not see the difference between mushrooms which were grown in a terrarium and mushrooms which were grown in the jars. In-jar grown mushrooms are only a bit more loaded with vermiculite so some more cleaning is desired (wash them in tapwater with about 1g/liter of vitaminC to prevent premature blueing).

If you harvest once then replace, you run a good risk of contaminating your cake.

The chances of a cake getting contaminated in a terrarium is way bigger compared to a cake in the jar. The inside of a jar has less surface and is easier to keep/wipe clean when you take the cake out.

fresh mushrooms are illegal in many places because they do contain psilocybin and psilocin

First of all - the legality of mushrooms is always theoretical. I think we can both agree on this. I suppose that in the case of a bust a box of growing Shiitake mushrooms will also be seized to be discussed in court later. The point is just to not get busted.

But on a 'theoretical' level there is a big difference between mushrooms which are harvested and mushrooms which are not. At least in Europe. Jars with mushrooms which still are growing can be distributed via flourists and the like, just as peyote cacti. But 'harvesting' as well as 'packaging' is considered a way of 'preparation' (for consumption).

The presence of a schedule 1 compound in botanical material doesn't make it immediately illegal. San Pedro cacti can be ordered all over the US.

The 'storage' method I described for cubensis -putting the jars in the fridge at the moment that the mushrooms usually are picked- is more a kind of delayed harvesting. It is only possible when the mushrooms are grown ínvitro since mushrooms which grow in trays or open jars will dry out in the fridge. To my knowledge, the method I proposed is the only one which can keep mushrooms in primo condition for three months. Post-harvest storage of fresh mushrooms is for a week, perhaps one and a half week, at most.

if you are interested in shroom growing and are new, read this stuff:
Magic Mushroom Growers Guide..essential reading.

http://www.shroomery.org/findorgrowthem.php?View=docs&doc=16%5B/blue

]

In that case, do not forget to read the critiques at

http://www.fanaticus.com/critque.htm


http://www.fanaticus.com/flame.txt



Bot he author of the MMGG and Anno Fungifun have only contributed in making a simple technique more complicated.

GOD:First off, when swim refers to second hand experiance, and follows it up with a ;) that means its beeing said tounge in cheek you moron.


I see. In that case I recommend to update your techniques so your expertise becomes visible in your posts as well. A *lot* of things have changed the last decade. But since practical mycology is a very conservative branch of science I do not expect that the new methods will drip trough in a day or two. But all things I wrote in this thread about the new techniques are tested&true!

Hint: get experienced with non-psilocybians. It is totally legal but the same rules apply (except for the PF TEK, which only works well with cubensis). Oyster mycelium may be useful for absorbing&decomposing dilute solvents. Large scale cultivation of those can be useful!
 
your too damned lazy to go about doing things the right way

Right On! I fully agree with that! But you should say 'the established way', not 'the right' way. The right way is always the best possible way for the moment (until a better one is invented). The best possible way is the most efficient way. And the most efficient techniques demand the least possible amount of work/energy for a given endproduct. For that, lazyness is more fruitful than being conservative (aping techniques from old books).

Im sorry to say, it does NOT make you look intelligent (if thats what your trying to do)

I do not think I am more intelligent than most people here. But I am almost sure that I am more experienced in non-pc, non-hepablower mushroom cultivation techniques than anyone else here. Unfortunately I do not know anything about the synthetic things one can do in a biochemistry lab due to lack of experience. Exchange in knowledge is what I am after. Not looking intelligent.

Btw GOD - your arrogant writing style is kind of typical for chem guys. They always seem to look down upon biologists. Please change that. Biologists migh be needed to solve or at least scaling down the complexity of the biggest puzzles of the Hive (the lysergics). 

I could tell IMMEDIATLY that you had not tried what you are talking about

See what I mean? But guess again!

You have been corrected on numerous holes in your proposed plan -yet you persist.

See what I mean? But it is not a plan but proven methods I am writing about. The point is that you simply do not want to put my words to the test. Perhaps that you have enough 'authority' here to get a mod to lock this thread. But then you would be the sam as Louis Pasteur a century ago, who used his authority to make people swear that enzymes didn't exist (or loose their scientific credentials). It set back developemtns of techniques for decades.

So if you think I am a lyer, disprove me by experiment. Not by calling your mum or the mods to lock me out.

with love from

Yachaj

bibliopharmacophile

GOD

  • Guest
Seeing as how, for some reason, you are refusing ...
« Reply #48 on: September 05, 2002, 04:41:00 PM »
Seeing as how, for some reason, you are refusing to accept private messages, you leave me no other choice but to post this here:

  Why dont you take your 'revolutionary' technique over to the shroomery?  Youll catch a much better reaming over there than I could possibly give.  Oh wait, thats probably why you brought that shit here in the first place- you probably thought that youd have an unedjucated and inexperianced audience.
  You try and come off like youve discovered something new...  I saw, that peroxide shit about 3 years ago and got the manual.  Great for woodlovers, but impracticle for pc.  Ive got a news flash for ya, just because you read a few books, it doesnt mean that you know what your talking about.  Your posts prove that.  There is a tremendous differece between 'booksmarts' and real-life experiance.  'Introducing' it (peroxide manual, pf tek, invitro) here at the hive is one thing, but youve taken bits and peices of a bunch of different techniques- techniques that work, when performed correctly, and mixed them together to build a process that WILL end in failure.  Like I origionally said, its commendable that youve taken the time, done all of this research, and pulled up some archaic referances (even though 'we' are supposivly living in the dark ages when it comes to cultivation...).  You act as if YOU have made some revolutionary discovery regarding cultivation, and us oldtimers are merely beeing resistant to change.  Thing is, we have already seen those techniques, PLUS we understand the mechanics behind them, your theory (your disjointed collage of these techniques) has so many holes in it, I dont know where to begin to try and fix it up so that it would actually work in real life (following the main premise that 'no sterile environment is needed...period')
  Its too bad, your other posts pertaining to LSD precursors had inspired some hope- its a disappointment because you have now discredited yourself.
  You do all this research, so that you have some big words to throw around.  Ive seen your type many many times- you might dazzle the unedjucated, but once you run into someone whos compitent you are exposed as the phoney bullshitter that you are.
  Im not an arrogant person, in fact, Im quite patient and benevolent.  I showed quite a bit of restraint at the beggining of that thread so as not to embarras you or outright call you on your bullshit.  How dare you take advantage of my generosity (to help you learn) and try and discredit me just so you can try and impress the unedjucated.

"All that we are is the result of all that we have thought."
-Buddha

goiterjoe

  • Guest
psylocybin content of mycelia
« Reply #49 on: September 05, 2002, 05:56:00 PM »
especially since psilocin/psilocybin contents are low even in late stage mycelium.


I was under the impresssion that the psylocybin content of the fungus would never increase after the medium was fully colonized, and that mushrooms merely transported the psylocybin out of the cake.  I have read a book that said the same thing; I think it was written by Adam Gottlieb.

All paths are the same: they lead nowhere

GOD

  • Guest
shrooms will gain in alkaloid content up until ...
« Reply #50 on: September 05, 2002, 06:37:00 PM »
shrooms will gain in alkaloid content up until right around when the veil starts to break, after that the shroom continues to grow, but alkaloid content doesnt increase in the fruitbody.

"All that we are is the result of all that we have thought."
-Buddha

paranoid

  • Guest
Perspective
« Reply #51 on: September 05, 2002, 10:41:00 PM »
Ok guys, putting this in perspective - Why would you even want to not bother with sterilization.

A - it's not that hard to do
B - It will inevitably increase the chances of success, regardless of technique
C - it's not that hard to do (just reinforcing this)

Seriously, I don't understand why anyone would even risk not keeping previously sterilized media in a non-sterile environment.  With practise it's really not that hard to do(again!).

goiterjoe

  • Guest
I'm not talking about the fruit
« Reply #52 on: September 05, 2002, 10:43:00 PM »
I'm not looking to fruit the mushroom.  I know for a fact that mycelia contains plenty of psylocybin for extraction, as I've done it before.  hell, don't tell me nobody here has made tea with cakes before.

Can anyone confirm that alkaloid content of the mycelium doesn't increase once colonization is complete?

All paths are the same: they lead nowhere

GOD

  • Guest
within the cake itself, I can honestly not say, ...
« Reply #53 on: September 06, 2002, 12:24:00 AM »
within the cake itself, I can honestly not say, obviously there is good stuff in there because you can bruise it by merely spraying water on it.  I would imagine that you are correct because after its colonised, and its recieved the right signals, it puts all of its energy into producing fruit.  If these signals where not recieved, even non-sclerotia bearing species like pc will start forming thick packets of mycelium (swim has noticed that these packets hardly bruise, even when picked and broken open).  Once its fully grown, and if its not recieving air exchange/light and cold shock- it goes into a sort of hybernation mode, but still eats up nutrients and moisture from the substrate.  If left more than a few weeks to a month or two- depending on how nutrient dense the substrate is(longer if refridgerated, but if one is going to fruit after that, expect diminished yeilds) the cake will eventually dry up and die.
  If swim where to cultivate cakes in order to extract, hed definatly go with tampensis, and shoot for sclerotia.  He assumes that one would bee doing this to either avoid the hassle of learning growing perameters (much easier), or to avoid having to use a terrarium for securities sake- or both.  Growing out pc just to extract the cake is a major waste IMO, as there is soooo much more good stuff produced (for extraction if thats your thing) from the fruits.
Tampensis....

"All that we are is the result of all that we have thought."
-Buddha

Yachaj

  • Guest
Why dont you take your 'revolutionary' technique ...
« Reply #54 on: September 06, 2002, 06:47:00 AM »
Why dont you take your 'revolutionary' technique over to the shroomery?  Youll catch a much better reaming over there than I could possibly give.  Oh wait, thats probably why you brought that shit here in the first place- you probably thought that youd have an unedjucated and inexperianced audience.

As you could have known if you only had checked - I do post at the Shroomery! But the Shroomery has a big disadvantage. Most of its members are people who do not understand the techniques which they are using. It is a good place for vendors to hawk their products (and for newbies to meet eachother) but not a place to have a fruitful exchange of useful ideas. I hoped to find a more educated community here.

I never wrote that I had discovered a revolutionary technique so you might as well leave out the inverted comma signs. All I am saying is that if two existing, proven techniques are combined (the PF TEK and the peroxide method) fungi can be cultivated on an unsterile table top. Indeed pretty revolutionary but not my invention. It isn't even the invention of Rush Wayne - the original discovery that substrates which contain a tiny bit of hydrogen peroxide do not need extra sterilization maesures was published in 1947 and then forgotten. Because of oldtimers beeing resistant to change, yes.

But imagine what can be done if a lab (flowhood and pressure canner) are not needed. Mushroom cultivation can become a welcome addition to agriculture/permaculture in developing countries. I will not go into details here because this is a drug forum, not an agricultural one. But yes i am convinced that scientific developments are slowed down by people who think they know everyting, like you.

Why don't you just restrict your posts to the subjects you are a specialist in - like I do? 

I saw, that peroxide shit about 3 years ago and got the manual.

Excellent! I am sure you can impress friends with an extensive bookshelf. When are you going to read it? I agree that peroxide is not needed for a PF TEK setup, but for any setup in which agarplates (and/or bulksubstrates) are used the peroxide enables the cultivator to do everyting in the kitchen.

I already wrote that these methods can be very useful for the lysergic hobbyists around here. Of what I have read I understand that the limited amount of available lysergic acid is the main reason that so few Hive chemists are in the position to do the desired experiments.

With the peroxide methods, working with paspali without the risk for contamination (a risk which becomes enormous when agitated liquid cultures enter the picture) is as simple as
making instant coffee. With the 'established' methods you think you know all about small scale lysergic acid production will always be a skill which only a very few will acquire.

youve taken bits and peices of a bunch of different techniques- techniques that work, when performed correctly, and mixed them together to build a process that WILL end in failure.

If you perform it perhaps, but that is probably because you do not read the texts you buy. I am using the peroxide manuals to make spawn for and grow woodchip loving mushrooms outdoors for about 4 years now.      

Im quite patient and benevolent.  I showed quite a bit of restraint at the beggining of that thread so as not to embarras you or outright call you on your bullshit.  How dare you take advantage of my generosity (to help you learn) and try and discredit me just so you can try and impress the unedjucated.

I think your extremely inflated ego is best illustrated by quotes like that one (and your Hive name of course).

always an atheïst,

Yachaj
 

bibliopharmacophile

bujinkan

  • Guest
yachaj, i dont have to time to yet again argue ...
« Reply #55 on: September 06, 2002, 09:22:00 AM »
yachaj, i dont have to time to yet again argue all your rediculous misinformational posts, needless to say, GOD had it correct when he said take your concepts to the shroomery, where everyone will ream you, not just god and i.

You are not an expert in growing mushrooms, this was made evident by your comment on sterility from the get go. Then you proceeded to tell me thta spores germinate in the gills...youve said so much bullshit that i cant even remember all of it. You used half pint jars for birdsees spawn eh? even with your double sterilization you should have had at **least** 10 percent contamination. how much of this stuff did you make up?
SOmebee  said that "why not have a sterile environment: its not difficult"
amen to that! Going against the grain is fine if you do proper research, and use unified logic to test your theories....
so you post on the shroomery?
when i get back to a permanent internet portal im going to take a few of your posts and put them on the shroomery...then ill paste some of the more colorful replies here.  Im sure that your comments on cleanliness and sterility will be very popular.

If I'm reading this correctly, and I like to think that I am.....

GOD

  • Guest
All I am saying is that if two existing, proven ...
« Reply #56 on: September 06, 2002, 12:29:00 PM »
All I am saying is that if two existing, proven techniques are combined (the PF TEK and the peroxide method) fungi can be cultivated on an unsterile table top.

Yes, I heard you...You are saying that "IF" two existing, proven...  You are not saying "when" -that says an aweful lot about where you are coming from.  His peroxide method is sutable for woodlovers, pc is NOT a woodlover, it is a grain lover.  Grains are much much more difficult to sterilise.  How hard is it to comprehend 1+1 does not equal three?  Even in that peroxide manual, he states that the peroxide technique STILL requires sterilization for certain areas, especially in the beggining-transferring culture that has not yet developed the enzymes for dealing with the peroxide (see? I done read the thing), this doesnt even account for the process you have to go through to aquire CLEAN contaminant-free mycelium (and yes, sterility is also a big factor when innoculating for invitro tec).  This is where you introduce your 'revolutionary' observation that it is not needed, going against the EXPERIANCE of the entire mushroom cultivating industry.  This experiance has been aquired by making the same, newbee-assed mistake you are proposing here.  Do you think your the only one whos ever tried to take shortcuts?  Do you think your the only one who has tried to take the easy way out?  Whos beeing arrogant and egotistical?  The only difference here- is that there are several hundreds, thousands of people who have actually tried theories like this, and they (myself included) have come back with shitty results.  You, have spent hours upon hours sitting on your ass and reading- youve built this idea based on hopes of not having to invest $30 bucks on a pressure cooker, and its too much for your frail little ego to accept the fact that you might bee wrong.  Youll never know either, because you will never actually get off your ass and try it out.  BTW, Id just love to see some pictures of some pins growing out of the gills of a mushroom.  If its biological fact that your spewing, there MUST bee some pictures around somewhere.  Funny, Ive never seen such a thing.  Ive seen mutants...but the pins come from the mat, or top of the cap- never seen 'em coming out the gills...  Lets see you scramble and bullshit your way out of that one...
  Even in the pf tek, they state that sterilization is nessisary, and no, the reason why the pf tek is successful is NOT because of the overwhelming amount of spores compared to contaminants (although high spore content does help reduce contamination because it burns through the substarate faster, and the MYCELIUM can overwhelm contaminants...another clear indication that you havent done anything but read, this phenominon can actually bee observed, where as contaminated syringes will kick out cakes that dont colonise, or will bee overrun with contamination).  There, I broke it down for you, all nice and simple-like.

Why don't you just restrict your posts to the subjects you are a specialist in - like I do?

___________________________________________________________
bibliopharmacophile

Say, what does that awesome tag of yours mean anyway?

-That is exactly what Im doing, actually- I am not a specialist although swim has had quite a bit of experiance in this area.  Id ask you to do the same:

Why dont you at least bee a little more honest and preface your post with: I am an avid reader, and although I think these thechniques will work, I have not actually tested them myself, so to all of you do-bees out there, take note.  I know thats not too much to ask of someone as humble as yourself.

"All that we are is the result of all that we have thought."
-Buddha

Morbid_o

  • Guest
As much as i would enjoy joining in the reaming, ...
« Reply #57 on: September 06, 2002, 08:24:00 PM »
As much as i would enjoy joining in the reaming, GOD and Buji seem to be doing a fine job(yknow..drawing on experience).
suffice to say:
if you aren't careful with sterilization, some of your cakes will look like this:

and some will look like this:

(not mine.)

"...a world in which opiates have become the religion of the masses."
-Neil Gaiman, American Gods

goiterjoe

  • Guest
bad cakes
« Reply #58 on: September 07, 2002, 12:53:00 AM »
the second picture looks more like the cakes were left in the canning jars too long than contamination.  Excess water also seem to be a problem with the second set.

All paths are the same: they lead nowhere

Yachaj

  • Guest
OK One More Time
« Reply #59 on: September 07, 2002, 04:38:00 AM »
This is becoming a yes&no game so this is my last post on this subject.

I do not care about what the 'entire mushroom industry' thinks. The methods as I have described do work. Between 2000 and 2001 several thousend of kg's of Pleurotus ostreatus were grown this way in Shinyalu (near Kakamega Rainforest, West Kenya). Which was the complete oyster mushroom production of Kenya that year. It was this project which gave me all the confidence I have showed in this thread (and all the confidence I need for follow-up projects).

BTW, Id just love to see some pictures of some pins growing out of the gills of a mushroom

In the case of Pleurotus, a beautiful picture is at page 439 of the 3rd edition of GROWING GOURMET AND MEDICINAL MUSHROOMS of Paul Stamets. But I do not see a real application of growing pins on gills. What I promoted was spore germination on gills, to obtain peroxide resistent mycelium for further transfers. And I also advocate the use of young mushrooms as spawn for substrates outdoors.

Bujinkan: halfpint jars with only whole grains such as birdseed (mostly millet) can not be tyndallized in the way I described. That is because grains have a too high insulation capacity. But a more airy mixture of sawdust or small woodchips and whole grains does work.

Try to obtain lab equipment in a place as Kakamega and you will discover why the nonlab techniques are desirable.

Yachaj  

bibliopharmacophile