The Vespiary

The Hive => Stimulants => Topic started by: levo on October 10, 2004, 08:50:00 PM

Title: Reducing alcohols with electricity
Post by: levo on October 10, 2004, 08:50:00 PM
Title: The Electro Equation
Post by: Scottydog on October 11, 2004, 03:08:00 AM
Would the equation to establish theoretical running time (rxn duration) bee the same, when oxidizing phenylalanine to d-amphetamine (with electricity) ala "kolbe"?

Title: Electrochemistry Software
Post by: WizardX on October 11, 2004, 09:21:00 AM
levo: I suggest you get this program if you want to learn about electrochemistry.

Electrochemistry Software POLAROGRAPH 5.4 (

Title: These equatations are theoretical for a ...
Post by: Organikum on October 11, 2004, 12:29:00 PM
These equatations are theoretical for a perfect world and ideal conditions. As we dont have a perfect world with ideal conditions they are only useful for to tell the MINIMUM amount of electricity needed in such a reaction.

Overreduction is nonsense and a divided cell was used always. Think about this.

- References tell that the sulfuric acid ester is the best reducible one.
- A lately surfaced japanese patent tells that reduction in sulfuric acid as electrolyte and using lead electrodes works for chloroephedrine. I propose it will work better with the sulfuric acid ester.
- Forming the sulfuric acid ester in good yields is the actual problem.

Is there a way to form the sulfuric acid ester of (pseudo)ephedrine electrolytically or by another way than the one which is described on Rhodiums page which suffers from bad yields (~10g ester from 20g ephedrine IIRC)?

Title: Re: Driving the current in Phenylalanine to Amph..
Post by: java on October 11, 2004, 06:11:00 PM
I would like to follow up Scottydog inquiry on Phenylalanine. It's well known that the ester of Phenylalanine can  be achived with a reflux in methanol with some HCl. Hence this conversion doesn't suffer from low yields, it would be interesting to see if the reduction of the ester to the hydrocarbon is possible in this case. From the onset it would probably take more current to remove it being an ester of a primary

Title: Dear Moderator. . .
Post by: Prepuce on October 12, 2004, 05:05:00 AM
Can't an offending poster simply be warned about his format? Must the post be entirely deleted?

Title: It isn't deleted
Post by: Rhodium on October 12, 2004, 03:25:00 PM
It isn't deleted, it can be accessed by clicking the subject line: (

Title: well, maybe???
Post by: dwarfer on October 14, 2004, 03:51:00 AM
ASS-suming that my
presumption in

Post 535732 (

(dwarfer: "A  REAL LIVE Failure!  YeS!", Stimulants)
that the microwave heating
of a lewis acid ZnCl2/HCl greatly raised it's
chlorinating effects..

(a speculative matter to be sure..)

then perhaps the same situation may occur with
H2SO4 in a microwave??

Who (k)nose? ;)

Easy trial, yeah?

And Orgy is the "King of the Microwaves":
get busy..  ":<) :)

Title: Maybe, but not my business anymore.
Post by: Organikum on October 14, 2004, 11:09:00 AM
Maybe, but not my business anymore.

What I assume is this:
- ZnCl2/HCl forms a complex zinc-acid which chlorinates the alcohol (says the "Gattermann"). The right ratios and microwaving will push the reaction into the wanted direction.
- Adding more Zn after the chlorination and nuking it will reduce the chloroephedrine, how complete this reduction occurs is unknown to me.

But (pseudo)ephedrine reduction is somehow boring, the P/I and the Birch, two almost quantitative reactions are available, what do you want more?

Title: REf: Info on Electro -Reduction of Alcohols
Post by: java on October 15, 2004, 05:30:00 AM
Near the end of this thread there is information as to the electro method of reduction of benzylic type alcohols ,(psudo)ephedrine, that may be of interest to readers of this

Post 243470 (missing)

(epistemologicide: "Re: Hydrogenation Question", Chemistry Discourse)

there is also some info here.....

Post 386506 (missing)

(Tengo: "electroreduction of chloro-E using NiMH", Stimulants)

Title: Electrochemical Cells
Post by: WizardX on November 08, 2004, 11:03:00 AM
Those of you interested in Electrochemistry, download this software (and serial) with my updated reaction *.dat files for more reactions. The *.dat files are just a start and I'll include more electrochemical inorganic and organic reactions in due time. (

Title: Wizard master I can't seem to be able to get...
Post by: nightshade on November 08, 2004, 07:07:00 PM
Wizard master I can't seem to be able to get on toyour site is there some trick or is something wrong?
Title: Copy the link, then paste it into a new web...
Post by: TheHitMan on November 08, 2004, 08:53:00 PM
Copy the link, then paste it into a new web window and click Go.

 It should then ask you if you wish to open the file, or save it to your hard drive.