The Vespiary

The Hive => Chemistry Discourse => Topic started by: Antoncho on April 22, 2003, 08:10:00 AM

Title: Determining composition of fabric conditioners...
Post by: Antoncho on April 22, 2003, 08:10:00 AM
Hi!

Well... The subject line says it all, i guess.

Recently SWIM decided to make several experiments with Turkish blend 'Dosya'. Water was successfully evap'ed on waterbath w/drauht leaving transparent yellow mass that solidified in freezer, but never crystallized.

Moreover, when a wash w/xylene was attempted, it all easily dissolved!

WTF? The content table says 'cationic surfactants' (that is, quat ammonium salts) - but AFAIK, they shouldn't bee very soluble in nonpolars, right?



And another question of yet more importance - what happens when one adds a quat ammonium salt to a strong alkali? Aren't tertiary amines supposed to form (which can bee determined by their smell?) Does it happen at RT?


If yes, then, obviously, none of the two braands SWIM's tested thus far, had any quats in it...





Please, help!


Antoncho
Title: PTC in fabric softener
Post by: weedar on April 22, 2003, 02:05:00 PM
I assume this is PTC-related as in

Post 427515 (https://www.thevespiary.org/talk/index.php?topic=11309.msg42751500#msg42751500)

(moo: "OTC fabric softener phase transfer catalysts", Novel Discourse),
could you try to compare results with any of those fabric
softeners? I recognize at least two of the brand-names in
the table. Happy hunting Antoncho!

(believe it or not, this is VERY interesting for me!)

Title: PTC decomposition
Post by: Vitus_Verdegast on April 22, 2003, 02:37:00 PM

And another question of yet more importance - what happens when one adds a quat ammonium salt to a strong alkali? Aren't tertiary amines supposed to form (which can bee determined by their smell?) Does it happen at RT?



On addition of NaOH R4N+ X- will form R4N+ OH- at RT.

Quat ammonium salts decompose when heated at ~100-110°C.



Title: I've understood that N-ethylated quats are...
Post by: moo on April 22, 2003, 03:38:00 PM
I've understood that N-ethylated quats are degraded by alkali much faster than those with only longer alkyl chains.