Too much lye

[kewlcanuk]

I added too much lye and my water/colman fuel mixed and I do not know how to separate it. How can they be separated?

[abominator]

This can be solved by adding enough warm water for the bottom layer to become aqueous again.

[ChemoSabe]

I don't really know the answer to this so it will bee interesting to see what it is.

Swims buddy was always under the impression that lye lock was not a bad thing and that in many cases that it might even bee a sought after condition.

Back in the prehistoric daze prior to the new megagakkers getting lye lock was quite common if one was not testing for pH. When it did occur swim's buddy never had the lye lock prevent the freebase from leaving the aqueous layer. In fact he was under the impression that lye lock actually helped push it into the non polar layer.

But he has also heard that some have believed lye lock to be a problem and that it they thought it possibly had the reverse effect from what he himself experienced first hand. (acted as some sort of hindrance in getting the FB to migrate in a non polar direction)

So the question really posed here is....

true or false

lye lock can be a problem when basing up your post rxn acqueous solution.

if the answer is indeed true (which I beleive it isn't) then how exactly is it a problem?

[Scottydog]

Chemo: In a post rxn workup, Swim attempts to recreate this condition each and every time. Swim never uses pre-mixed 20-50% solutions of lye to add to his post rxn fluid.

He dilutes the post rxn fluid with water and then adds the sodium hydroxide to this fluid, 1 teaspoon at a time, over a 30-45 minute period.

He will continue to add lye until it locks up at the bottom. In his opinion, this ensures that the maximum amount of freebase will enter the NP solvent for the amount of solvent used on the 1st pull!

He has had terrible results with yield when attempting this approach during pill extraction.

[CharlieBigpotato]

if ph 14 actually harms what you are after, then going toward it gradually will never actually expose the delicate extractants to this ph...

they will boogie into the np layer at 13 or less; and by the time you have gone too far with the lye; and made shitty-cheese, your goods will have already migrated into an enviornment wherein they are happy. same w/ the acidification part of this equation:

go slow; if you want a high yield. you can't destroy a molecule that isn't in your war zone.

[ChemoSabe]

I always wondered why it was so often suggested to add the NaOH slowly.

Swim has always done it drop style with a sep funnel and never had a problem with a lye locked water layer not delivering the expected goods. But now I think he understands why making one too fast might give bad results.

I'm guessing that needing to eventually clean the flask might necessitate breaking up the locked layer by adding more water but that pretty well goes without saying. (I think)

Wait a minute.....

Swim has never, even in his most extreme "pH was off the charts" lye locks seen the lock carry over into the NP layer. Like happened to krazykanuck. What the hell is in Colemans that would allow this to happen?

[abominator]

Fast addition of lye makes for a very exothermic reaction and this is not a good thing.

I have read (Placebo) that one can't over basify the meth molecule, so I have to agree with Scotty.

Swim prefers basing his goodz prior to adding the NP and one can judge by that amine smell when a proper pH is reached.  You can obsevrve the meth migrating to the top of the aqueous layer and sit there in a small layer of it's own.  To quote Osmium "looks like the fat of a soup."

[geezmeister]

Adding that much NaOH or lye is overkill, and unnecessary.

To "lye lock" the aqueous layer, you either have to add far too much NaOH-- or you simply did not dilute the reaction fluid enough to begin with. If your polar layer locks up, it either is too concentrated or you are wasting lye.

This is one area where "too much" isn't better, just like too much acid doesn't improve titration. There is enough, and there is too much. I understand the urge to base until there's no chance there is any meth HI left in the solution... but I assure you that point is reached well before lye lock.

If lye lock were beneficial, why does the kerplunk give better yields in two pulls than anyone ever achieves from lye lock? I suspect its the fluidity of the reaction fluid and its circulation against the nonpolar solvent, which allows the solvent access to the freebase meth. That, and in part the heat imparted to the solvent, which increases its effectiveness as a solvent. It has nothing to do with higher pH or solidifying the polar layer.

[SQUIDIPPY]

Use TSP and avoid all of the problems above.
TSP = No heat
TSP = No lye lock
TSP = No PH problem.
TSP = The better choice.

Be forewarned how ever TSP must also be added slowly as it will foam a great deal. Simply continue to slowly add TSP and stir until TSP stands on the bottom. And wha-laa. If one feels that TSP doesn't bastify quite enough, then a small amount of Lye can be added.

[number427948]

As I have much experience here, I would add store bought ice, to your post RXN work up. For it is all distilled,and therefore introduces no contaminants©

[ChemoSabe]

Once upon a time 20ml of pre dissolved NaOH had always been quite enough to get the post rxn solution to free it's goods to it's upstairs neighbor the Naphtha housing matrix.

But then along came the new new wave of encapsulators and time release agents. The first of the worst of these was when the newer and differing concentrations of PEG made their yeild stealing and golden syrupy debut. Once that happened even if cleaned reasonably well even 60ml of lye could not lock up the water layer.

The moral of this parable is....

If you've added a lot of lye and the aqueous layer shows no sign or hint of even starting to lock you've been gakked in a big way.

(but even if this be the case it doesn't necesarily mean that you'll get nothing at all of use from the rxn)

PS. Also it was noticed that when the NP layer seemed to initially not contain much after basing by the next morning it had a lot more goods in it. (a time release effect?)

PS2- These are rather ancient oservations having to do with semi new gakks. But since those "once new" gakks are still around (plus a bunch of new others) this info is thought to possibly still have some present day relevance.

[SorceresS]

it's okay. go ahead and bring it to lye lock then instead of adding hot water to the mix set the container in containment with hot water over the top layer. this will bring it out of lock, if not heat the water more. so you do not have to reduce the potency of your shit with more water.

[wareami]

so you do not have to reduce the potency of your shit with more water.

SorceresS:
For clarity's sake...
You can't reduce the potency of your shyte with the addition of water or anything that will be evaporated off in the end.