crystal size: I/E/RP vs Birch

[18294]

SWIM is absolutely peprplexed and requests the help of other bees in his problem. SWIM is a bircher and only gets small to medium sized crystals, but his product is top-notch. It is better than any of the I/E/RP product that is around that has bigger crystals. It is frustrating because everyone associates big crystals with good product, but SWIM's is even better.

Is there some sort of cut which makes for larger crystals? SWIM heard about MSM being used, but he is not sure if that makes crystalization go better or not. Also, SWIM was thinking that a byproduct of the I/E/RP rxn may cause a better crystalization... Is this even possible?

SWIM would like to be able to explain to others why big crystals don't always mean good product... this is very important to him. A man got very angry upon seeing only med sized crystals. He almost got violent with SWIM before SWIM convinced him to try some to test purity. Well, he was convinced, so SWIM will live to birch another day.

btw, telling me to "UTFSE" at this point would be quite pointless, since TFSE is still down.


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"He who cooks and runs away will live to birch another day."

[SHORTY]

And since recrystalization is a way of purifying then adding a cut would probably make it harder to get big crystals rather than make it easier. The slower you cool the bigger the crystals.

[Baynne]

I'm no chemist, nor have I even seen meth up close, so take this for what it's worth.  The size of the crystals seems to be the result  of recrystalization, not the process used to create the substance.  You could try a SLOW recrystalization.  That should make bigger crystals.  Never heard of someone comparing crystal size though.  People I know are just glad to see something other than coke.

[borolithium]

It is very difficult to make a birch crystalize, if at all. There is no question that the birch produces a stronger product, as there are fewer impurities and the product is racemically pure. However, the impurity that is formed due to over reduction, seems to inhibit crystal formations. In fact, a heavily overreduced product will often come out as a white powder, and will not crystalize at all, even though it is absolute rocket fuel!

Because cosmetics are so important, my dreams have abandoned the birch for the time being, as I wasted months of dreaming and seemed never to produce the large crystals that the RP/HI method produces every time. The yields are lower, the ingredients are more expensive and harder to obtain, but the end results are always large crystals.

One possible solution is to VERY slowly add the predissolved NA/LI in NH3 solution to the dissolved ephed base under strong stirring and never take your reaction to the point where it actually stays black. At that point you have over reduced and it will effect your shard formations. Maybe leave a little ephed unconverted by undercalculating your solvated electron additions.

[SHORTY]

So you switched to a more expensive, less potent and lower yeilding method just because the crystals were too small?

I just don't understand your rationale.  Why not just give a potential customer a small sample and if its as good as you say then they will buy it no matter how big the crystals are.

I prefer mine in the powder form and always grind my crystals down cause its easier to dose that way.

[weaz1dls]

This suggestion is not recommended if you are unfamiliar with ph signs or lack titrating experience.  Also if small quantities are not something you have dealt with or you lack patients and seek a quick-fix then do not read any further.

Take a small amount of product and do an A/B on it with NaCO3 or bi-carb.  Use pre made, cooled and, filtered brine solution.  Let it settle with oil on top.  Collect oil rinse once with small amount of brine.  Let settle, collect then combine with equal volume of DH2O.  Add pre mixed hcl solution swirl wait swirl add etc till oil dissolves no to much water though.  Dry out, do not rinse with acetone or anything else! Unless overshoot acid. Place in plastic eye dropper not visine type but small dropper bottle like used for animals or emergency eyewash.  The dropper top looks like a nipple and is hollow. Lightly place a cotton swab cotton tip in the dropper nipple.  Don't pack to tight then pre wet with denatured alc. Put the dried retitrated product in the dropper bottle. Add drops of denatured while plastic bottle is submersed in hot brine in a coffee cup. add just enough to get the stuff to dissolve while hot. Add aprox 3 drops extra, place nipple top on, and carefully but quickly squirt into dram.
If crystals crash out add 1-2 drops denatured, and cap dram.  Leave dram cap slightly loose for pressure escape.
Heat brine solution in coffee cup in micro a little at a time.  Be patient, place dram in hot brine, you want it to dissolve not boil away so this takes a little trial n error.  Maybee try it first with just alch solution.  When you h=get it to dissolve watch for a bit to be sure it isn't going to boil and get wild. After aprox 45 seconds secure the dram in the cup and put it in a place where it will not be subject to vibration. Does not have to be in the dark just yet but that does help. The resulting crystals will be collected by pouring off the mother, then rinsing with room temp tone just a small bit now.  After dry place in clean dram.  Add drop wise fresh denatured while in hot brine solution same as above, slowly here now.
Repeat this process and each time the rocks will be more uniform.  You may even have 2 different types forming. Save all mothers and filter cottons, this can be highly wasteful till you get a feel for it!!  Quite a bit can dissolve in just a drop of fluid and when working with small quantities it will disappear fast!
If anybee is interested Swiw can put together a detailed OTC setup for working with small quantities and post it in the Chems and Equip forum.

[borolithium]

You are correct. The RP/HI is a lower yielding, more expensive method. Your arguements are rational, but a gib head is not. People DO judge books by their covers. Don't blame me, blame the consumer. It's the same thing with limey green bud, recompressed coke, or a bottle of Dom Perignon. None of them will get you ANY higher or drunker than a cheaper alternative, sometimes less, but this is the superficial nature of human beings. Rational arguements do not work. This is why some idiots will pay hundreds of dollars for a pair of Versace jeans when a pair of Levi's is just a good. It's superficial bullshit but it is a fact of life.

[SHORTY]

If your dealing with inexperienced consumers then i can see your point.  However, a little sample to an experienced user would bee sufficient as long as the quality was up to par.  Those people who buy the expensive jeans will wear them in public rather than keeping them hidden as they usually would do with meth unless they only associated with other users.  But even they would probably keep it hidden as well or else they would have to share.

If you offer them a free sample do they turn it down because of the size of the crystal?

[borolithium]

Anyone will take it for free. Anyone who has taken it for free says "Wow, that is really good Pee Dope." Pee Dope is the street name for the white, chunky powder. But it is impossible and impracticle to explain that to everyone. Trust me, I have tried and tried. It is not worth the effort.

 I have had years of experience with this kind of bullshit. You can have a bag of the most kill weed you have ever had the privelage of trying and a guy WILL NOT take it because it does not have that limey green look they want. "Try it, it's the most kill smoke you will ever have". "It doesn't matter, the consumer wants the limey green".

And although the product may not be as visible as Versace jeans, it is certainly bragged about and shown around to friends. Gib heads have other gib head friends and they love to show off the large, cigarette sized crystal that they are able to purchase. They all marvel at it and everyone wants to know where he got it from. Then they all go get it from that guys supplier, because remember, half of getting high is all psychological anyways. Heroin addicts start trembling in euphoria when they are getting a blood sample taken, simply because their brain has related the needle prick to the surge of pleasure.

If you dream of anything, be it blow, gib, green, or whatever, and you do not want to deal directly with the consumer so you go to a middleman, they have unconditional standards, non negociable, and I assure you, few to none will take white powder. Fact of life. Non-negociable. Deal with it because that's how it is.

[SHORTY]

What i was getting at is that from what i have experienced during my time as a dealer (coke and bud).  I never lost a sale even when the shit wasn't really that good.  I would even tell them if it wasn't that good and always let them try a little if they were in doubt.  There wasn't really alot of competition and most of the buyers weren't the type to show off their goods.  They were just addicts and needed their fix.  I have since moved and no longer sell or buy from anyone and if competition is that fierce then i am glad im outta that area of the game.  I just wouldn't have the patience for it.