Author Topic: Reductant (1 mmol)???  (Read 1789 times)

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Chewbacca

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Reductant (1 mmol)???
« on: September 19, 2003, 09:25:00 AM »

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/benzaldehydes.kmno4.html



it states here that to oxidise styrene to benzaldehyde, 4.65g of KMnO4/alumina reagent is required to oxidise 1mmol! that seems entirely rediculous! if one wanted to oxidise 100mmol, which is only about 5 grams, one would require over a pound of KMnO4/alumina reagent plus enough DCM to dissolve everything! why is so much reagent required to reduce so little? this seems entirely impractical if one wanted straight benzaldehyde...


hypo

  • Guest
hmmmm.....
« Reply #1 on: September 19, 2003, 11:06:00 AM »
if my calculations are right, then that's 5mmol KMnO4 per
1mmol styrene. do you know the theoretical amount? even
if it's equimolar (which i doubt), that's still 90g of
catalyst for 100mmol. sounds impractical.  :(
maybe using less alumina works too?
(afaik KMnO4 oxidations suck anyway)

> if one wanted to oxidise 100mmol, which is only about 5 gram

no, that's about 10g (styrene or benzaldehyde)

> plus enough DCM to dissolve everything!

no, i don't think the alumina/KMnO4 will dissolve in DCM  ;)


Chewbacca

  • Guest
right about 10g
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2003, 02:18:00 PM »
yeah it is about 10g, my bad. when i say "enough DCM to dissolve everything" i mean enough DCM to hold everything together in a slurry for stirring. i sorta figured that the reagent wouldn't dissolve in a NP, me stoopid again.  :P

i noticed in another writeup for oxidising styrene to benzaldehyde styrene was used basically as a toluene substitute, it too being reacted with mnO2 + H2SO4 to form the aldehyde. i was wondering, since toluene can bee chlorinated to benzal chloride then reacted with either ZnCl or CaCO3 + H2O to form benzaldehyde, could styrene also bee chlorinated in the same fashion then reacted similarly to form benzaldehyde, just like a toluene substitute? (since they form the same compound when reacted with mnO2 + H2SO4)

any ideas?


hypo

  • Guest
alternative
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2003, 10:28:00 PM »
the alternative low yielding aqueous permanganate oxidation doesn't
look tasty either:

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/tma2np.html


seems like permanganate oxidations simply do suck.

> i was wondering, since toluene can bee chlorinated to benzal chloride
> then reacted with either ZnCl or CaCO3 + H2O to form benzaldehyde, could
> styrene also bee chlorinated in the same fashion then reacted similarly to
> form benzaldehyde, just like a toluene substitute? (since they form the same
> compound when reacted with mnO2 + H2SO4)

no. chlorine would add accross the double bond giving an unwanted compound.
(something like 1,2-dichloro-1-phenyl-ethane)

but tell: you can get styrene and not toluene!?