HCl and Freebase

[Mr_Rodgers]

Well Ive looked and couldnt find any informing answers, so I thought Ide at least ask. I notice in TIHKAL under MIPT, under the administration/dosage section, under the smoking route he doesnt explain weather its the salt, or the freebase. So which is it? And if it is the freebase, whats the deal with methamphetamine? Why do people smoke the salt? Would it be more potent to smoke it as a freebase? What about MIPT, could it be smoked as a salt? A sraight answer would be appreciated, and a point in the right direction would be just as great. Thanks in advance.

[renegade]

I dunno about MIPT, but in the case of meth freebase is generally preferable for smoking since it evaporates more easily and there are no byproducts. You can smoke the hcl salt of meth because under heat it breaks down into freebase and hcl...

[Un_Chambered]

I also have seen that posted here but I didn't think it had ever been proven true?

[Mr_Rodgers]

Should this type of question even be here? Is there a more suitable place for it? Is there a major difference in activation/potency when smoking the HCl salt compaired to the freebase in MIPT? What was it that Shulgin/group used?

[kreiselmeier]

The meth freebase would brake up in useless carbonates by the uptake of CO2 from the air. Only a salt is stable. Sulfate is not smokable. Only the Hcl form is "good" for that.

[Capt_Stubing]

If ya reread the MIPT section of TIHKAL Sulgin makes a point to describe the unusual stabality of the freebase of this tryptamine.

from TIHKAL

A couple points of passing interest. As to stability: many of the free-base tryptamines are sensitive to air oxidation, some of them extremely so. This particular base, standing for a goodly number of years with no particular protection from air, has remained almost colorless, with no apparent signs of decomposition

I'd bet the farm that if they smoked this compound then it was the free base. Perhaps the unusual geometric crowding of the nitrogen atom by the alkyl groups helps to protect this molcule from oxidation... It would make sense to me.

As far as smoking goes from what I've read in TIHKAL I don't recall any trials with this method of ingestion investigated. From what I read they were eating and/or snorting it. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I have some of this stuff hanging around in my research chem collection. If I get the time this weekend I'll toss some on a piece of Al foil, then fry& write it up. Look for it in general discourse.....