Riddle me this.....

[tina_craig]

[biotechdude]

200 strikers, 1 cup acetone

Your rP may have residual glue and/or clumped together; limiting 'active sites'.

Came out with orange pseudo crystals (Didn't get all the red off) Roughly 1.5 grams.

Dirty in, dirty out.  Quality would be improved with the red removed and the use of tetra.  Props for using IPA/KOH though...

Took off instantly, cooked for one hour and balloon sucked completely into bottle.

Hot and fast cooks on dirty feedstock produce tainted end-product.

Added equal portion of dH2O Lyed out to Ph 13, added 1/2 portion of naptha, added equal portion of dH2O and added drops of HCL until pH reached the redddish pink color.  Separated NP and evapped water layer to return brown product!!

To improve quality perform NP wash of the acidic reaction fluid (multiple times).  Then base up and add your NP and perform water/brine washes.  Then add your water and don't overshoot the pH.  Then rinse with acetone and recrystalise. 

However, none of these procedures will be overly helpful unless your feedstock is clean.

[bigdumbnut]

I've heard lots of figures but I don't beleive you'll get more than 1 gram of RP from 4 boxes (50 strikers/box)of matches. Most likely contaminated w/ glue

[ChemoSabe]

Added equal portion of dH2O Lyed out to Ph 13, added 1/2 portion of naptha, added equal portion of dH2O and added drops of HCL until pH reached the redddish pink color.  Separated  NP and evapped water layer to return brown product!!

It's unclear here if you had separated off the naphtha away from the lye water before adding the HCl.

If you added HCl to the lye water then your product is now mostly sodium chloride. A way to see if you made some table salt is to try a melt test on some and if it doesn't melt and some of it even "pops and cracks" you've probably got salt with maybe some lye and maybe some meth in it too.

And if you do happen to just have some really dirty brown meth there it's time for you to learn both acetone washing and recrystallizing.

Here's a redo of your own steps the way they might better be done next time. Also see Geezmeister's classic post reaction workup thread for the Encyclopedia Beetannica version of this.


* Add equal portion of dH2O

* After filtering out the RP and rinsing the rp and filter with near boiling dH20 the filterd post rxn mix is rinsed 3x with xylene.

* Add 250ml+- of warm naphtha

* Slowly add Lye to Ph 13

* After Naphtha has been allowed to soak up the freebase (1/2 hour is a good start) separate off a portion of it for the first titration

* wash the naphtha 3x with dH2O

* add 20ml dH20 to naphtha and 6 drops of HCl acid for every expected gram of product. Let this stand for 15 minutes or so before separating/evaporating.

* evaporate the 20ml of meth water on a _low_ heat with a fan blowing over it as not to lose your product to steam.

* place dried product in unbleached coffee filter and rinse with cold , dry acetone

* recrystallize for a cleanly vaporizing end product

[placebo]

It would be nice if you all lived in a metric world.
Please use all metric measurements, not cups, pints and mLs.
I won't bother responding to this jibberish, I'm a snobby cunt!

[SQUIDIPPY]

[tina_craig]

Also had some unused RP from previous 12 box extraction, same procedure.

[tina_craig]

It's unclear here if you had separated off the naphtha away from the lye water before adding the HCl.

Yes the naptha was separated from water/acid/oil mix after lying out.

Thank you for the tips.  Hadn't had any in about 3 months and swim did make product, swim's first successful rxn.  Woohoo!!  So, swim figured one time of doin the brown won't be too bad and will soften the cravings.  Had a wonderful spin!!

[wareami]

Before the finely engineered gaaks of today, you'd hear about product called peanutbutter meth. That was the product of poor work-up habits.
Today with the newer gaaks you could wind up with anycolor of the rainbow if those gaaks aren't removed.
I have been alluding to the fact for some time that Eudragit is made with acetone and IPA is the main solvent used to manufacture Eudragit.
Eudragit is tricky and will follow all the way into the end-product if steps aren't taken to remove it pre-rxn.
It won't screw the work-up totally like OII gaak but you'll have product that doesn't look or feel right.
Did I mention that the three main components to make Eudragit are TOXIC substances?
Consume that end-result at your own risk.
If it ain't White it ain't right(or translucent)
Some hints of yellow suggest either overacidification but may also indicate the presense of Eudragit if it takes long time to evap and dry completely.
It's no small wonder they would take the most popular solvent used in extraction of pfed and develope a gaak around it. You don't need to be a rocket scientist to see what is going on.
Never be in such a hurry to get high by doing something that doesn't look right! You are sacrificing you're health for instant gratification.
You being a cook should be held to highest standards!
You knew it wasn't right and did it anyway!
Okay we all make mistakes.
Obviously you pointed out the err in your ways!
At least had you followed proper protocal you'd be left with a clearer picture of what the product consisted of visually.
Read the boards and stay current on the latest info offered here.
Everyone here gave good advice.
I even agree with the metric/imperial unit argument.
How would we feel if everything was given in only metric?
If you include the metric and the imperial there is no need for anyone but the poster to convert!
Why should everyone reading have to do the work when if one did it for all it would be more considerate!
It's just a matter of respect and consideration shown from someone seeking help on an international board!
See now you did it!
Ya turned placebo into a a 2in./5.08cm tall snobby cunt
Well his user pic is that big
We still luv ya placebo!

[wareami]

There was no mention of an acetone wash of the goods prior to the bioassay!
This should be mandatory whenever any color other than white/clear is encountered.
Streetbought or homebrewed!

[SQUIDIPPY]

[tina_craig]

Yes, swim was jonesing and probably shouldn't have consumed the peanut butter, but hasn't noticed any out of the ordinary side effects and the edge is gone.  Been runnin' 2 days.  Won't be so sloppy next time. Moving right along, swim came across some generic pseudo that only lists 4 ingredients, pseudo 60mg, chlorpheniramine maleate 4 mg, magnesium stearate and microcrystalline cellulose.  Any thoughts on these?  2.88 grams sitting in 150ml of IPA ISO right now.

[tina_craig]

Another thing that no one addressed which is hopefully a good thing is the KOH source.  Came from drain cleaner evaporated dry until bleach smell was gone.  Am I missing anything here?

[wareami]

First on the pill front...
It's obvious to me that some homework had to have been completed in order to get this far.
Somewhere in all that reading....I find it unlikely that the parts were skipped that indicate inactive lists are not accurate enough in detailing what all is being included by way of denaturants/inhibitor gaaks.
It would be extremely silly of them to abide by the Consumer Right To Know policy while detailing a roadmap for bees to follow and expecting their work-arounds to not be worked-around. Even if it wasn't plain english, spelled out for us Chemhacks, The Hive has chemists here equally or better educated than the pharmers that would help us arrive at the solution/work-around.
The only way to know for sure what formulation is being dealt with is to run a small batch and determine from there how best to proceed with the lot.
Don't hesitate to abandon a procedure that worked yesterday but no longer provides the desired result.
Inactive lists may provide simple indicators of formulation, but I don't trust them as far as I could throw one.
As for the KOH...Ibee has no experience with it yet but other bees do.
Listen to them and research their other contributions through TFSE®.
Those that adopt the mindset of making this a journey of learning & education fair much better in the longrun.
The wealth of knowledge here spreads growth as well as LONGLEGS!
Yikes!!! Did I say that?

[evilscripter69]

YOU WERE GAKKED,the KOH was probably weakened when evaporated, who knows the effect of bleach, how did you separeat them?
Potassium carbonate is formed from prolonged exposure to air, evaporation of that shit is a bitch SWIM's done it a few times. the color should have been whacked completely if it worked. SWIM's seen that color too many times last few months trying to find workarounds to the new Gakks. You are lucky only a small part made it or you would have orange plastic in your bowl(if u smoke it) not a pleasant experience, and very foul tasting. anyways feters cure works if u have KOH, if not the TT/SPD method

Post 529156

(evilscripter69: "Best extraction method. well tested", Stimulants) has been very successful. yeilds increase if you use toluene/xylene  for the TT. Evaporation of it Sucks, If you want to evap KOH
 its in plumbing aisle wallysworldbig yellow bottle on.. bottom shelf ,READ THE LABEL

[tina_craig]

Different pills, same procedure, gassed pill from from toluene this time and made a beautiful snow storm of pure pseudo, pure white.  When reacted, I controlled it to keep it from just taking off, my balloon filled and sucked back into the flask (250ml round bottom) ofter 2 hours of cooking, followed the tips in the post for the final workup and the stuff that came out seemed very clean, but it didn't have near the kick as the  brown stuff?  What is up with that?  This round was 1.5 grams E, 1.5 grams I and 1.5 grams RP.  The KOH extraction worked like a dream producing beautiful pseudo, or so it looked.  May have lost pressure during the reaction though cause noticed a small leak in balloon towards the end and had to change heat source during rxn.  Could this have screwed it? And if so why did it still blow then suck the balloon?

[tina_craig]

I washed all myRP with 50/50 water/HCL and then with acetone too.

[ChemoSabe]

That "kick" that you are missing is probably due to removing the iodine. It ain't a healthy kick to be getting but there's a decent enough amount of evidence to point to excess Iodine really creating one.

[tina_craig]

Chemosabe: You think the rxn was complete then?  A buzz was felt, but it didn't last long, but no sick feeling, it wasn't like trying pure pseudo, tried it before just for a reference and felt sick 30 minutes later.  This had a nice spin, but could eat almost immediately and now am tired, slept all day today and woke up to finish project, left it at end of rxn after adding water and it sat all day in rxn vessel with water.  Woke up and did finishing up.  Was it just pure stuff or did one of these factors alter something?

[ChemoSabe]

Look at the color of the xylene used to wash the post reaction solution. That color is mostly residual iodine. And that's also the color that was left in your brown peanut butter crank. Well, it could also be excess HCl but since you carefully pH tested your addition of HCl the odds are it was al or mostly iodine.

This color is not an indicator of a completed reaction but of residual iodine and/or excess HCl.

I'm not certain of the experiential effects that this iodine might actually have because I've not experienced it but supposedly IV meth users love it and think that even the purest meth possible sucks without it.

Check with the Search Engine for more on Iodine contaminated meth. There should be plenty to read about it.

Also your experiencing the cleaner meth as less potent may also have something to do with gaining some new tolerance to it. If you hadn't done any in awhile and then binged out on it. Then binged again right after that could easily do this.

[placebo]

To get an immediate definative answer, it would also help if you stated relevant concentrations of chemicals as well as their amounts in metric.

[Jacked]

All you are doing is unreduced gear. You need to detail out your whole process before anyone can pin point your problems... Your rushing the most important part of fixing your problem.. And that is in the way it is presented....

[wareami]

Start over. Squash this batch and chalk it up to a learning experience! We all have them!
Jacked is absolutely right about unreduced.
If you can eat immediately after bioassay...you don't have meth in a percentage worth wasting your time with!
If you want...collect the remainder of the unreduced and re-react.

And as placebo says....be considerate and post metric equivalents for the international bees here when seeking help!
All things chemistry related are in metric and clandestine chemistry is no different.
Aztec posted a link to this excellent peace of software.
It should be mandatory for all chemhacks like me!

http://www.joshmadison.com/software/convert/

[tina_craig]

That is the answer I was looking for, will begin work soon, this is getting easier though, first 3 steps are beginning to be cakewalk, steps 4 and 5 are coming though.  Will post again soon with new stuff.  Thx everyone for not ribbing me to badly and for all the good pointers.  Other than yield KOH does kick ass!!

Patience is the key.

[geezmeister]

I've had 60% yields from the method without much difficulty.  Accept that as a good yield with the current gakks, be happy about how clean the pseudo is, and enjoy good meth. Try much harder to up this yield and you will be gathering something besides pseudo. You might get a little more pseudo if you extract the water layer with the trash. Let it sit with some nonpolar over it for a day. This is more important if you are doing the hydrolysis with an alcohol soup of K and OH from KCl and NaOH. After you use this alcohol layer soup to do the hydrolysis, and pour off the alcohol layer to evap, leaving the nasty stuff in the beaker, just cover that with some xylene and let it sit.  Wash and titrate it the next day. Some of your yield will be there.

[tina_craig]

Put in 2.88 and got back 1.5, happy with that though because it is the first clean I have seen. KOH came from drain cleaner smelling of bleach that was air evaporated for about a week to return crunchy white KOH crystals, sound right to you?  Heller bleach smell for a week though!!

[geezmeister]

Do get some KOH. It works much better than KOH you make, or KOH you have after evaporating drain cleaner. Like the difference between lye and NaOH, only more so.

I had some success making a workable alcohol solution with lots of K and OH's in it. I dissolved KCl and NaOH in a minimum amount of water-- not enough for all of it to dissolve completely-- heated that up and added a larger volume of ISO alcohol to it, then left it on heat with stirring for about thirty minutes. I added the alcohol layer to the pseudo/ISO/H2O solution from extracting the pill mass, brought this to a boil and refluxed it for thirty minutes, then separated the water layer out. I evapped off the alcohol, added water, and extracted with xylene. I also extracted the trashy water layer with xylene and picked up a lot of pseudo from it as well.

The process worked; it was cumbersome, and most of it was guess work. Far better to just obtain and use KOH. The pseudo obtained was very clean of polymers, however, and reacted very well.

[tina_craig]

Waiting for KOH to arrive, tried the KCl and NaOH, 10g NaOH to 20g KCl for 100 pills in 200mL of ISO (91%) worked really well.  The evapped KOH from drain cleaner seemed to work better, however swim is new to this so who is swim to make a call like that.  Have 100g of potash on the way.