Author Topic: Wacker Ketone Wash BIG Problem - Help Please!  (Read 4609 times)

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RoundBottom

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« Reply #20 on: October 01, 2002, 06:24:00 AM »
but i think stupid user is Error 1.

Nymphomania is not a disease  - its a goal!  (Methadist on Rosemary Kennedy)

Diggity

  • Guest
DID YOU APPLY HEAT????????
« Reply #21 on: October 01, 2002, 05:21:00 PM »
DID YOU APPLY HEAT????????

If you didn't, expect 60-75ml's of ketone back instead of 125. Even less if you didn't pre-stir your catalyst, benzo.

& I'm, somethin of a phenom, 1 puff of da cron, I'm un-stopable.   
 

lab_bitch

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Pot is right. Base destroys ketone.
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2002, 08:10:00 AM »
Pot is right.  Base destroys ketone.  Whenever I wash my crude oil with base about 10 g of crap precipitates.  I used to think that this was garbage, but later discovered that it was actually my ketone!  The moral of the story - mixing ketone and base is like mixing alcohol and GHB.

goiterjoe

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that's overdramatizing
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2002, 09:16:00 AM »
you have to wash your ketone with base to clean it properly prior to distillation, and the wash won't hurt the ketone.  You do need to wash the ketone afterwards with an NaCl solution and a water wash to get rid of any trapped NaOH.  If you don't, the high heat of distillation will polymerize your ketone to your flask, and that ain't cool at all.

All paths are the same: they lead nowhere

lab_bitch

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I've never done a benzo wacker, but if you have ...
« Reply #24 on: October 06, 2002, 08:39:00 AM »
I've never done a benzo wacker, but if you have to wash it with base, use as weak of a base soln. as possible and keep contact time to a minimum.  Also, washing the ketone with water to remove any base is VERY important.  I have distilled ketone w/o the wash and I get about 40 g of tar, which should have been ketone.

SPISSHAK

  • Guest
Here's a dumb question
« Reply #25 on: October 09, 2002, 09:27:00 AM »
I understand that benzoquinone's role in this oxidation is to recycle the catalyst.
Even making it unessecary to use copper salts to act as reoxidizing agents for Pd(0), and that it has a benifical effect on yeilds by somehow stabilizing the intermediates, this is evidenced in another patent which I will submit, which states the yeild improving effects of adding hydroquinone (sometimes employed also as a free radical inhibitor) to a dry methanol O2 Wacker situation.
But the stupid question posed is, why does this method employ the addition of such copious amounts of water 50 ML I think, why is this needed?
and the patents are: US 3410807 and 3475461.
and here is an abstract of these patents:the first patent gives a detailed description (example 6) of the oxidation of styrene (the closest relative to our favorite alkene). He indicates that there are a number of side products, including the aldehyde as well as isomerization that hurts yields. He concludes that the best solvent for styrene is methanol which produces the highest conversion and least side products. In this example H20 concnetration was 0.7 percent.

In the 2nd patent he admits that the previous method (above) produced the desired product (ketone) but in poor yields due to side reactions and other products (isomerization and aldehydes, etc.). To correct this he uses an inhibitor to prevent side reactions and improve the yield. These happen to include hydroquinone and benzoquinone among others.

In an example using styrene, by simply adding hydroquinone to a typical wacker oxidation using O2, CuCl2 and ethanol the yield jumped from 59% to 74% and also decreased side reactions. In this case no water was added so the final product, an acetal, had to had to be hydrolyzed with acid to form the desired ketone.