Author Topic: Baal,Al/Hg/Nitro, & a 55gal drum.....  (Read 15599 times)

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Wargasm

  • Guest
Oh kapten, my captain
« Reply #40 on: August 16, 2002, 02:48:00 AM »
It seems like there are several creative uses for beer brewing items.
Nice vessels indeed.  You should post this in the aquisition forum for future use in TFSE

Worker bees can leave
   Even drones can fly away
      The queen is their slave

wacko_reaco

  • Guest
come on
« Reply #41 on: August 22, 2002, 03:27:00 AM »
i think encouraging inexperienced, industrial chemistry naive bees to embark on what is effectively a bomb making course is crazy, hopefully no-one is taking this shit seriously as you will die or be injured then arrested (which is worse). It appears that in fantasia cordless drill batteries last two hours (who stood there for two hours holding the trigger), that room temperature, air tight seals mean high temperature solvent proof seals (call that a testing regime) and first time fanastic successes are the norm. Speculation is great but should be stated as such.
I don't want to be an ass-hole, but the nitro is not really considered a 'safe' chemical and putting it under temperature and pressure is not exactly 'safe' either.
i have seen Bob Geldof try and perform a 500g ketone/nitro run in a 100L vessel with a 6inch Internally coiled QVF condensor running coolant at -5C, with the nitro added slowly (over 1.5hrs) and it almost ran out of control, what is speculated here is that X100, ie a bomb, a runaway reaction.
Just a note, don't try this, it is not worth it unless you know what you are doing (chemical engineer or industrial chemist with plant experience) and all your systems have been properly validated, tested and a safety process is in place.
But I probably mistook this whole thread as serious whereas it never was, so laugh at me if that is the case. but be safe.

wacka wacka wacka

hCiLdOdUeDn

  • Guest
Oh cmon... NO ONE at the hive has done anything ...
« Reply #42 on: August 22, 2002, 04:38:00 AM »
Oh cmon... NO ONE at the hive has done anything illegal...just remember that...its all stories. (wink, wink**) but maybe not? or maybe so?

hcildoduedn

placebo

  • Guest
I agree with wacko, far be it for little ole me ...
« Reply #43 on: August 22, 2002, 07:27:00 PM »
I agree with wacko, far be it for little ole me to comment in the same thread as the almighty Baal, but this whole discussion is ludicrous. The MM nitro amination, is a fantastic synth and it has revolutionised the way MDMA is being produced around the world on personal levels. It is awesome and a credit to MM, but it has it's place.

But let's get real here, in any quantities remotely considered large scale, (for arguements sake, let's say >200gm) it would be ridiculous to consider reducing your ketone in this way. For various reasons.

1. If you posess the necessary skills, knowledge, equipment and access to reagents to have gotten this far and have a substantial amount of ketone. Then you already have about 10x the requirements necessary for making copious amounts of MeAm. Making MeAm is about as difficult as aquiring Nitromethane.

2. The classic Al/Hg/MeAm reduction is 10x(?) more volumetrically efficient then the MM Nitro, so that instead of concerning yourself with 44 gallon drums and whether such and such a container has the right lining, or if you have the necessary condensing capacity to contain this potential bomb. You could be doing kg batches in a 5L RBF.

3. The safety issue. and probably many others I can't think of right now.

4. If you like fucking around and making things more difficult then they have to be. Hell, go ahead, when your done, if your not in jail or blown up, why don't you finish off by gassing with Hcl and foil for fucks sake!

raffike

  • Guest
Raffike has a 100 litre or little larger ...
« Reply #44 on: August 22, 2002, 09:52:00 PM »
Raffike has a 100 litre or little larger stainless steel water-jacketed autoclave with 3 2 kwt heating elements.Max pressure about 5 atms or so(i bet at 10 atm it would explode).
SwiRaf's dad got it probably for free.SwiRaf cooks beer with that.It could be also used used in low pressure Wacker reactions and probably in Fester's bromosafrole method IMO.

A friend with speed is a friend indeed

RoundBottom

  • Guest
> Al/Hg/MeAm reduction is 10x(?
« Reply #45 on: August 22, 2002, 10:26:00 PM »
> Al/Hg/MeAm reduction is 10x(?) more volumetrically efficient then the MM Nitro

not to pick nits, but AFAIK it's about 5x as efficient.

> doing kg batches in a 5L RBF

i think about 300g is about the max for a 5L RBF.  i do not know this from personal experience, just from calculations.

302.6g  ketone

378.8g   MeAmCl (3.3x excess)
378.8g   dH2O

673.2g   dH2O
224.4g   NaOH (1x ratio to MeAm)

2380mL   methanol
450mg   HgCl2 (150mg per 1000mL MeOH)
151.4g   Al foil (3.3x excess)

this leaves about 3700mL of fluid, and not that much headroom.  this would require slow addition of the ketone, not dumping it in wholesale.

249.2g ketone would fit a lot more comfortably, with about 3000mL fluid.

my mouth tastes like burning.

hellman

  • Guest
I am in complete agreeance, when dealing with ...
« Reply #46 on: August 23, 2002, 05:28:00 AM »
I am in complete agreeance, when dealing with quantities over say 100g, use methylamine HCL,.
Don't risk this, it's no worth it,.
Convert your nitro into methylamine with a tin/hcl or a fe/hcl system, if your that desperate,.
It's braindead easy,.


IQ is the rate of logic, as Wisdom increases logic, fear & compromise decrease to reveal objectivity

sYnThOmAtIc

  • Guest
Man fuck that. Use that monster for for brewing ...
« Reply #47 on: August 27, 2002, 09:04:00 PM »
Man fuck that. Use that monster for for brewing some ergot. Much more worthwhile. Hell 100l so that means 75l capacity. You could have 175 grams of lysergic acid amide every seven days.

Yes, That pic really is me!

locrian

  • Guest
Reply to 'Man fuck that. Use that monster for for
« Reply #48 on: August 28, 2002, 04:35:00 PM »
I debated chucking in my two cents, but said fuck it.  Here goes.  First, I don't see why Baal would lie or what benfit that might give him.  I'm sure he doesn't give a fuck what other bees (ie - people he will NEVER meet EVER more than likely) think of him.  He probably wasn't suggesting that someone try to copy this.  Think about it, if you did something on a big scale like that that was your own idea (especially inspired by biker stories), you'd probably be pretty damn proud of your work.  Its natural to human nature to want to share this feeling somehow, not for admiration, but just because it feels so damn cool to accomplish something like this, you feel compelled to tell someone.  And talking about that kind of thing outside of this board is 9 times out of 10 just stupid, so everyone should stop playa-hating, your just jealous.  Honestly, if in the unfortunate circumstance that something bad happened to Baal and the Feds took him down, they would nab his hard drive, link his screenname to him and this post could be used to prosecute technically for kingpin type shit.  So lying would have been really fucking retarded, I'll bet he just felt overwhelmed with the rush of doing this and couldn't resist posting it (as would I).  That "SWIM" shit would probably NEVER protect anyone (or refering to yourself in the third person), especially considering that the FAQ openly reveals that SWIM is used in place of first-person pronouns.  Yet, swinl still does it, too, just in case, you never know, Johnny Cochran could probably make it work.   ;)

Secondly, Rhodium is soooooooooooooooo goddamn right about distilling the freebase its not even funny.  And most bees still ignore this notion.  The purer the product, the better it becomes.  Unbelievably so, in fact.  From swinl's first batch, to his last shit (distilled) before the FDA pulled the carpet out from under him temporarily, swinl could not believe the difference it made.  Pure MDMA is so worth the additional effort I can only strongly encourage bees to at least try this once.  Its stronger too, and considering that X is sold in pill form far more often than in weighed-out-baggy form, more money could technically be made if one wanted to be stingy like that (hook it up though, good karma is a good thing to have on one's side). 

In the Drug ID Bible 2002 (

http://www.drugidbible.com

) I saw a picture of MDMA that was clear see-through and prismic, like bomb ass glass.  It said it was quite rare - and this book is no bullshit, incredibly accurate drug info IMHO on just about every major illicit and pharm. drug out there (US-wise I suppose).  I suggest checking out to everyone.  Does anyone know how these clear crystals would be produced?  Swinl couldn't quite get there...yet.  Next chance he gets though, this will be the goal.  I was thinking virtually absolute purity combined with slow re-drying from dh2o in the fridge would be the ticket.  Do the d and l isomers play a roll in this (ie - would the d isomer have to be isolated).  Any info is appreciated on this. 

Ok few more points, then I'll shut up.  VL_ was talking tounge in cheek so chill with doggin' him.  Picturing that scenario in my head was fucking funny for some reason. 

I guess people have a point with the MeAm thing.  For swinl though, having multiple setups running simultaneously was incredibly easy and gratifying in the end.  Don't bitch about the added cost of the glass ware and hotplates, if you make that much X, you certainly have the money to pay for these items.  Sure, danger and difficulty in acquistion of these items could seem daunting to some, but no less than 55gal pressurized drums full of nitro-juiced wickedly toxic and incriminating materials to me.  I'd still be scared of mercury content personally without at least an A/B or preferably a distillation. 

It's not like Al foil and Hcl is so OTC and easy and NaCl and Sulfuric is so hard to get.  Different strokes for different folks.  The reason that came to my head is that I've read about OTC Sulphuric Acid (drain cleaner in the upper 90%'s used straight from bottle) sending some impurity through the gas and into the crystals. 

Last thing, Baalchemists "redundant" post and hellman's reply was some funny shit.  I haven't laughed out loud while by myself in a while.  Actually, its been since UnObtanium once sarcastically refered to a newbee called something like "CraZyGluSnifr" the next Shulgin after someone tried to defend the surge in newbees after the Datelin/Strike thing.  Then he said, "obviously a valuable asset to the team.  Welcome aboard!"  Laughed my ass off.  Thanks, guys.  Late.  Sorry for being long winded, i guess that's the meth speaking ... ;D

scram

  • Guest
Bal isn't a story teller.
« Reply #49 on: August 29, 2002, 01:04:00 AM »
Bal isn't a story teller. I've talked with him for over the last 2 years before he was even bal. He has no reason to lie. He's traded a lot of valuable information with me over that time.

hellman

  • Guest
Locrian, I'm glad you enjoyed ;-)
« Reply #50 on: August 29, 2002, 05:10:00 AM »
Locrian,
I'm glad you enjoyed
;) -doubly so, if you were on meth,

IQ is the rate of logic, as Wisdom increases logic, fear & compromise decrease to reveal objectivity

RoundBottom

  • Guest
best part about MeAm
« Reply #51 on: August 29, 2002, 09:08:00 AM »
almost forgot, the best part about MeAm instead of nitro...

assuming 3.3x molar excess, half as much Al needed... and it doesn't need to be ground foil.

my mouth tastes like burning.

placebo

  • Guest
Who said or insinuated he was lying?
« Reply #52 on: August 29, 2002, 12:25:00 PM »
Who said or insinuated he was lying?
I merely tried to affirm my position/opinion that Al/Hg/MeAm was better for larger amounts then MM-nitro. A/B's and distilling ketone is a given, or should bee for most.