pusdo distillation issues

[menthol_man]

SWIM is getting a stinky smell when he is steam distilling
psudo.  Swim uses 300Ml d-water + 2 Grams of psudo +1 gram
baking soda.  Boiling Temp is 144C and that psudo is taken
from equate brand pills.  They are ground up fine and
mixed with the water and filtered.  the liquid is put in
the simple distillation rig.  The resulting clear liquid
smells funny is that normal?  I cant really describe the
smell.. it's like its sweet but yucky... it would make me
vomit if i had to breathe too much of it.  Anybee know
anything abouth this?  There is proviodine (PVP) in the
pills.  I get a white precipitate that comes up at about 100C to 110C.  Is that the PVP getting detrroyed by the
temp?  Any bee know wbout that either?

Gott Mit Uns!

[Osmium]

> Boiling Temp is 144C

Are you sure? Water boils at 100°C...

[menthol_man]

Well Its benzaldehyde for sure... its in SWIM's RB flask but not coming over (SWIM think's) beecause the
distilled stuff is clear.... but it has a taste to it so SWIM knows there is *something* in with that water.
I know benzaldehyde is red to yellow in color but my stuff is clear.  Is benzaldehyde in there?  Is
there a test for that?  Can SWIM stop benzaldehyde from forming?  Can anybee offer advice?
Gott Mit Uns!

[Chromic]

Funky smell is likely the smell of freebase pseudo or the smell of phenyl-2-propanone, benzaldehyde smells exactly like the scent of almonds.

[menthol_man]

The benzaldehyde comes into play when ephedrine gets heated too much (and the conditions are basic)
im not sure when it kicks in I think it's like 120C or maybe a little more it decomposes.  Using a digital
thermometer (calibrated at that, checked with a mercury one too!!) The way my rig is setup (it cant bee changed it's made that way) im
having to tilt it.
    _
   | |   __
   | |  //||
   | |// {8}
   |  /   {8}
   | |    {8}
   | |    {8}
  (__)   (__)

Ok the part with the 8's in it is the condenser and that can bee removed no problem but swims
rig has that arm that points up and it CANNOT bee changed.  SWIM has been forced to raise the
temp up to create enough steam pressure to get the water over the arm and into the condenser.
(when the rig is in teh upright position.)  Swim is broke and cant afford a vacume to overcome this
design flaw.  Can anybee think of a good solution to this problem.
Gott Mit Uns!

[menthol_man]

Here is SWIM's NEW Psudo Steam Distillation kit made 100% from metal kitchen parts
The collection tank is a metal mold for a funnel cake.  Thats the most important piece.
Look at the blueprints... Make sure you save it that pic isnt gonig to bee up for long



Gott Mit Uns!

[halfapint]

Glassware caution:

Do bee careful with that steam pressure. Blew a hole, almost perfectly round, out of the side of a 1 liter round-bottom, into its oil bath, when I inadvertently built a pressure-tight still and didn't notice. Hm-m, I thought, that could have been worse. (Another time, it was worse, but I'm still not talking about that time.)

Angel food cake pan assembly. Think that poly bag will work for a reflux condenser? How would you affix the top and bottom portions?
turning science fact into <<science fiction>>

[menthol_man]

Well kids beecause swim's latest invention uses a thick clear plastic bag any excess pressure  would
just pop the thick plastic bag.  However when I got it it has two holes in it.  I scavenged it from
from the house.  It used to hold electrical cords.  It has two small and round holes (diameter of a no. 2
pencil) and i took a little piece of plastic and glued a flap over it so the evaporated psudo water would
stay but any excess pressure would vent.  There is a friction fit between the plastic bag and the funnel
cake can (water trap)  No chem glassware is used at all.  It's " ghetto " but it's very nice.  Nothing
should bee impovised here all the parts u need are commercially built and you just need to find ones
that fit together just right. 

Depending on reflux temps the bag im using holds up nice under 100C.  Your bag should bee stiff.
now to get the now clean psudo water out you gotta dissamble yuour rig.  Since this is unacceptable
to this tinkering bee Im going to drill a hole for a drainage tube so that the psudo water uses gravity
to drain into a waiting collection flask.  SWIM will also add a tube or something to the bottom pan
(dirty water processing tank)  so that SWIM can just pour in more liquid.  See now we can take these
hoses and when they are not being used they can bee coiled to prevent psudo water from getting out
but they will vent excess air pressure without any water getting out or make a push pull kinda setup
for the input and output hoses.  This still is so simeple but its SO FUCKING TIGHT beecause when SWIM's
done it will bee a lean mean psudo processing machine..  turn that bitch on and pour your filthy
providone pill water in and pure psudo water comes out the other end!!!  Just acidify and let water
evaporate out!!!!  I just wanna tell everybee when im finished here im gonna make the A/B process
obselete. 

I gurantee here that every bee will have their own $10 Distillation machine that's FULLY AUTOMATED.
so your manufacturing process would beecum :

Gring pills and add water. 
Filter.
Put ino M&M's psudo machine.  Get psudo freebase out other end
Acidify pure psudo water to make Psudo Hcl and evaporate for crystals

DO your RP / I reacction
Vigerously masturbate

Add water and shake to get all you meth mix out
Filter out solid RP
put your red / orange / yellow yucky water into meth distillation rig
(another psudo distillatoin rig... make em identical)
Get meth freebase out other end
Acidify pure meth water to make Psudo Hcl and evaporate for crystals
Let water evap slowly for HUGE MEGA CRYSTALS
Vigerously Masterbate again

Repeat process thinking how stupid , wasteful and time consuming a/b extractions are...
$ell dope and make mega bux

Mail a check for 10% of every sale to 

Menthol_man
125 Anybee street
Washington DC 20002

or alternately get a dark plastic bag and insert some beecum into
said plastic bag marked "hunny" and mail to :

Drug Enforcement Agency
Attn :Evidence Storage
Suite 14
47 Pennsylvania Ave.
Washignton DC 20001
Gott Mit Uns!

[Jetson]

man, and here swij was building a fukin condenser and everything.... 
_...

[foxy2]

I thoght I would add this link to basic steam distillation information for newbee's.  Learn the theory and your life may get easier.

Foxy

Post 255162 (missing)

(foxy2: "Re: distill pills", Newbee Forum)

Post 245775 (missing)

(foxy2: "Re: Steaming Goofy", Stimulants)

Post 48563 (missing)

(notfman: "Why Steam? Here's Why!", Stimulants)

Post 75610 (missing)

(Worlock: "Steam Distill pseudo-E ?? Failed", Stimulants)

NoJailForPot

(http://www.nojailforpot.com/)

[menthol_man]

Menthol_man is NOT a newbee     BUT
thanks for the links (I missed a good one)
Gott Mit Uns!

[fierceness]

I'm not exactly sure of the chemistry in steam distillation, but in my understanding it is the following:
meth or pseudo (freebase?) forms an azeotropic bond with H20 and when they are heated, the meth/pseudo is attached (still bonded) to the H20 (steam).  The steam is then condensed and collected.  If this is true, then I propose the following:

Have you ever seen those Iced Tea makers? you pour water in one side and attach a pitcher underneath.  The machine heats the water, makes steam, the steam is forced into this other chamber where you put your tea bags, it condenses, and goes through into the pitcher below.  What if you put meth/pseudo/contaminants/water into that chamber, turn it on, and let the steam carry the goods into where the tea would normally be made?  Any thoughts/ideas?

EDIT:  You could even put ice or whatnot into whre the tea would be and where the steam is shot into... would cool it down if necessary.  But i dont think it would be since it already works fine to make tea.. lol

[menthol_man]

Hmm that seems very innovative and economical.  I will
definately look into it.  SWIM could have several of thoes
running at the same time... thanks for the idea  
Gott Mit Uns!

[Jetson]

ah fierceness yeah...  swij was thinking along the same lines last night.  he was thinking of a mister coffee though.  ripped his apart but sadly he realised it didn't work exactly as he had thought.  the water gets sucked down through the bottom into a tube and gets heated and then back up to the coffee grinds and shit.  but yeah the fukin tea maker....   ohhh,  could save so much fukin time.  poor swij tweaked his last tweak last evening while up all night trying to fuk with his mister coffee.  he wanted so badly to distill his fukin shitty ass pills but alas he had to resort to the ole fukin wash em with everything in the god damn book method.  oh well,  it's tea time.  hope it works.
_...

[Jetson]

aawww!!!  damn-it!!!  swij just looked at his tea thingy and guess what...  it's a fukin mr. mother fukin coffee with the same set up as his fukin coffee maker....  holy shit man!!!   it's gonna be one of those fukin days eh?
_...

[fierceness]

OK, so here is a different idea.   What about those old-style tea-kettles... the kind that whistle when they are done?  What about putting a piece of braided pvc tubing into the hole where the steam comes out (thats what causes the whistling) and poking it through one end of a freezer bag full of salt and ice to help cool the steam, and then the and then it comes out the other end of the freezer bag into a sealed container with ice and some kind of pressure ventillation in case things get out of control...  the freezer bag acts as a condenser (you may even use more than one bag to increase the cooling effect)... you also should put the freezer bag at a lower point than the kettle so that the water goes into the collection container rather than back into the kettle.. these tea kettles are good because they have a built-in pressure ventillator...if the pressure gets too much, the way it is built allows for it to automatically vent some of the pressure with minimal loss of product...   Here's a picture of what i am kinda trying to convey.. excuse the artwork, when people say that I am sketching, they dont mean i'm picasso

[humidbeing]

Not that I know anything about it (I don't), but given
that feirceness' theory is correct, you would'nt want anything to condense untill it had gotten into the place
you'd want to collect from. no?

  This could be a thing where a coldfinger would be used,
 a large surface area coldfinger. It's not resubliming going
on but it seems similar in that a bond is formed
then broken, within a wide temperture range.
   If it solidfied on the "coldfinger" it would seem that
  it'd have to be scraped clean then put back in.
 This is just a theory
" It's the smell!.......I feel saturated by it...

[fierceness]

Well, you want it to condense as soon as gravity will pull it down to the receiving flask rather than back up to the kettle.  Notice how the kettle is at the highest point, then there is a table, and then there is the flask on the ground.  I'm not exactly sure what a coldfinger is.  I know a condenser would work, but the idea is to have an easy-to-assemble and acquire apparatus

[humidbeing]

Actually, that sketch does look a little Picasso-ish.

 Nothing like andrew wythe though.
" It's the smell!.......I feel saturated by it...

[Jetson]

yup fiercy ole boy guess what swij tried right after the mr. coffee goes awry bit?  yup using his old lady's tea pot.  didn't work out quite as expected either.  the pour spout of the pot was a bit odd shaped and the hose didn't want to fit quit right so he had to use a drilled out cork.  that work ok but then all the steam proceeded to go right out the cracks at the top of the pot where the lid is.  the shite really needs to be sealed up nice and tight swij would think.  but from your pics. up there maybe your talking about a different kinda pot eh?  swij is thinking that either a boiling flask or barring the finding of one of those around here a pressure cooker is in order for best results.  swij also must now build a new condenser cause he fuked his all up while playing the coffee and tea game.  oh, and just an fyi, the condenser that is in the "building a home distilling apparatus" pdf on rhodiums site looks to be a nice poor man's condenser. 
_...

[menthol_man]

I hope we can keep this thread alive with more ideas and
bees experiences.  SWIM allowed psudo pills to distill until
there was black and red PVP tar.  The resulting distilate
was acidified and evaporated.  There were many small
crystals and I think that benzaldehyde contaminated it.
It's definately a workable process but SWIM hasn't gottent
the hang of it yet.  SWIM tried again and it's still in the
works... it evaporating now hopefully there will be some
nice crystals.  Im using Baking soda to base out the psudo
hcl so it beecums a freebase.  Remember to use one gram
of sodium bicarbonate for every 2.2 grams of psudo hcl.

Update soon!  
Gott Mit Uns!

[fierceness]

just remember to be careful and dont let the pH get up too high.. i think 12.5 should be high enough.. pfed molecule isn't quite as sturdy as a meth molecule

[menthol_man]

with the baking soda the ph only gets to 7-8 maybe 9 tops.
Gott Mit Uns!

[Osmium]

> SWIM allowed psudo pills to distill until there was black
> and red PVP tar. 

How can there be tar during a steam distillation? Did you distill to dryness?

[menthol_man]

SWIM distilled to dryness.  That of course was a "no no"
I (Rhodium simply forgot to check on water levels.
An intresting thing happened though.. a band of the psudo
crystals were rather small and exibited a rainbow refraction
when exposed to white light.  I previously used mineral
spirits and may not have washed a container as much as I
should have.  That may have caused the rainbow effect.
This was better than last time and there is no funny smell
after the crystals formed.  The psudo water was
heated at 70C to quickly form crystals.  This heating
plus an crystalizing plate that was sitting uneven
may have caused to weird "veins" that are on the plate.
ALmost liek the back of a leaf the veins run through the
crystals.. they are thick and white.  All and all this
was my most successful distillation so far.  I mixed brands
of psudo pills.  I think after recrystalizing from menthol
and maybe an acetone wash everything shoudl bee nice and
clean.  This is really diplaying promising results.  I have
given up on the A/B process for this.  Its automatic and
uses fewer chemicals reducing your chem purchaces.I (Rhodium) love to reduce the amount of flammable solvent
in my lab.  Previous posts talk about adding steam from
other sources.. I (Rhodium) am doing fine without using
an external steam source.  My rig uses simple distillation
is is doing well so far.  SWIM hasn't worked out all the
kinks... some of the psudo crystals smudge when touched.
Magnification under 30X microscope showed liquid droplets
under the crystals.. so we'll let it dry some more and
recrystalize to see if we have something pure.
'Official' Rhodium Impersonator

[menthol_man]

Why thank you Rhouium for that witty and informative post
Rhodium    oops Im exposed... Menthol_man and Rhodium
COULDNT bee the same bee could we?  Maybee it's another
Zwit / Elusis thing going down here     Umm anyways
after SWIM finished the resulting psudo was VERY nice
after a menthol recrystalization.  Every bee run out and
buy equate brand psudo and make METH!     SWIM will
now entertain questions.
You fuckin FIRST get an answer: If I catch you once again with that childish impersonating of Rhodium, I'll expell you for life. And learn to spell or use the checker. LT/

[menthol_man]

Here's a little tidbit SWIM's just learned.  32 oz of water
will take about 1G (or so) of Psudo over.  Now this is with
simple distillation.  This produces the best psudo SWIM has
EVER seen.  After your adition to make the psudo Hcl make
sure you do a menthol recrystilazation.. its amazing..
but the moral of this story is to only put in a gram at a
time.  SWIM can't get more to come over at once.  SWIM
deals with WALLY MART pills from the Uninted States.So umm Wally can just suck this bee's nuts.   
SWIM is working on a faster / better solution than one gram
per 32 oz of distilled water.  Anyone know anything bee
sure to speak up.

until later
Seig Heil Uber Allies !      

[Osmium]

You better quit your Nazi remarks, at least learn how to spell that correctly next time. But I still say quit that shit, if you wanna impress your redneck buddies at the watering hole with them, fine, but not here, got that?

32x30ml is almost 1L of water, that's a lot of water for only a gram of pseudo.
Try saturating your water with NaCl or add some other salt (e.g. KNO3), this will raise the water's boiling point and hopefully bring over more goodies.

[Jetson]

swij was just about to open a new thread to ask about how much psuedo one could expect to get from how much h2o.  like if there is some kind of equation or something to try and figure it out.  but luckily he's a good bee and reads all the new threads before he posts.  guess there's no real answer to his question though eh?  hmm,  guess it's time to play around and see what he comes up with.  and yes,  seeing how swij just started distilling also,  this is by far the best way to clean psuedo.  fuck playing around with all those solvents and shite trying to clean it up.  this is by far the way to go-go.  next up, distilling meth freebase from rxn mix.
_...

[Jetson]

ok,  from swij's playing around he came to the conclusion of .9 grams to about 1 cup h2o.  that was done quite consistantly.  let swij fill in the blanks a bit.  96 pills were crushed and soaked in cold h2o then filtered.  1gram baking soda added for every gram psuedo.  salted the solution till no more disolved in it.  distilled in simple distillation apparatus.  swij used a mason jar to collect the distillate/freebase psuedo,  every time the jar was half full swij put it in a evap dish and evaped to get almost a consistant .9 grams.  why's it taking so much h2o???  is there any other solvent/liquid that one could use in place of h2o?  everclear perhaps?  would that hold the base and bring it across?
_...

[Osmium]

> every time the jar was half full swij put it in a evap
> dish and evaped to get almost a consistant .9 grams.

You evapped the water on a hot plate? And got 0.9g freebase?

[goiterjoe]

I guess he's saying he steamed distilled it into the jar only so he would be able to steam distill it back into the atmosphere later.  Man, next time try extracting with a nonpolar solvent, or at least acidifying the pseudo before evaporating the water.
If Pacman had influenced us, we'd run around dark rooms eating pills and listen to repetitive music

[Jetson]

ok,  my bad.  i forgot to mention that it was  made acidic with a few drops hcl and .9grams was what was left.  gees guys come on...  i doubt if it was freebase i would be left with anything seeing how the hcl only leaves .9grams.
_...

[goiterjoe]

What's with everyone trying to steam distill pseudo without an outside source of steam?  I was under the impression that steam is only soluble in superheated steam, but not in water vapors.  I've had good results with pumping superheated steam into a mush of sassafras roots.  On the other hand, I have yet to claim any oil back from boiling the water in the same pot as the root bark.  Maybe you people should start setting your rigs up the way everyone else has suggested that you do instead of trying to teach a crash course in one-pot extractions.
If Pacman had influenced us, we'd run around dark rooms eating pills and listen to repetitive music

[Jetson]

goiter,  maybe you're right but why not stick with it if it works?  just have to try and get the yields up a bit...  maybe they'll decide to come up,  and maybe not.  but either way it beats the fuk outta all the other shite swij had to do to get clean psuedo.  i don't know about others but swij wasn't ever intending to do steam distillation just a simple distil.  seriously swij isn't trying to be a dick here,  just can't see the point in making something that's somewhat simple, that could have some possibilities, more complicated.  K.I.S.S.   but yeah who knows,  maybe the yields won't come up because of the points you've mentioned,  then it'll be on to a steam distillation.  sorry for the rant,  jetson's gettin tired...
_...

[Jetson]

oh,  one more thing.  swij was up all night last night and came up with a neat little simple distillation apparatus that he thinks may work.  it's based on menthol man's above apparatus.  but here's what swij was thinking instead of one of those funny bunt cake pan or whatever,  swij put a thin aluminum bowl on top of a pressure cooker so that it goes down in and only about an inch or so is sticking out,  now the bowl has holes drilled all around the top edge about 1 1/4" down.  put a glass lid on top of the bowl(swij also put the rubber gasket from his pressure cooker lid in between the bowl and the glass lid for a better seal so no steam escapes) upside down and put ice in the lid so it helps condense the steam and the steam, now water fall into the bottom of the bowl...  viola.  did that make sense?  anyway it's not too conspicuous(a good bit less then a condenser and hoses running everywhere) and easy and fast to clean up.  don't know,  just a thought.  swij is going to put the condenser away and give it a shot though he thinks...  stay tuned for yields.
_...

[VideoEditor]

SWIVE (inspired by Dwarfer) just got back from the thrift store with a $4 Expresso Machine.  After a slight internal modification this baby puts out superheated steam nearly instantly at respectable pressure.  I call it the turbo steamer.  Passes 2 cups of water (steam) in about 3 mins.  No more waiting for hours     Only drawback is its so hot I have to build a new condensor that can handle the load. Thanks for the idea Dwarfer!
Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits

[VideoEditor]

also,  I dont see how  you are getting to the proper PH with just Bicarbonate.  Maybe that's why your yeilds are low or the time is so long.  Try using washing soda with a little lye to bump it up to the proper PH.
Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits

[geezmeister]

Video Edit: SWIG tried an expresso machine and kept getting too much damn hot water and not enough steam. He was using a small unit and using the port to make cappucino---- and had bad luck. Are you venting the steam that goes to to cup holding the coffee grounds themselves, or or using the steam vent used to do the other stuff with. Maybe I need to do some plumbing on the unit Let me know how well your unit works. OK?
An education is what's left when you've forgotten what you learned.

[VideoEditor]

Geez: using the steam vent, not the basket port.  In my model I had to partially block the basket port to create enough back pressure to get enough force from the steam vent.  If I charge the unit with hot water I get steam only from the vent and a small watery trickle from the basket.  Be careful not to block the basket port completely without adding some sort of pressure release valve.  I hate when things blow up .  I hope one day to re plumb it to get rid of the basket, add a pressure regulator, and figure out a continuous water feed . That would rock , cuz waiting for water to boil sucks.
Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits

[Jetson]

swij thinks videoedit may be right about not getting the right ph from using just baking soda.  swij put a dash of a strong lye solution into his already based(somewhat) psuedo/pill mess and proceeded to distill and got alot more to come over.  meanwhile he's going to try and figure out how much lye he can put into how much psuedo for distilling without burning everything up...  anyone have any ideas what % of lye solution would be suitable for a distillation of about 1.5 grams psuedo(that's 24, 60mg. tablets)?
_...

[Jetson]

after reading a past post swij thinks he has a better grip on the ph thing but now has another question.  is jetson correct to assume that one can tell when one has gotten all he's going to get from the distillation by frequently checking the ph of the distillate and once the ph is no longer strongly basic the distillation of the base is done?  or would the h2o still be a basic solution also maybe due to excess base?
_...

[foxy2]

"is jetson correct to assume that one can tell when one has gotten all he's going to get from the distillation by frequently checking the ph of the distillate and once the ph is no longer strongly basic the distillation of the base is done?"

Possibly

"or would the h2o still be a basic solution also maybe due to excess base?"

The only "base" that comes thru the distillation is pseudo, the pseudo is making the solution basic.  All the NaOH stays in your dist. flask.  However the freebase pseudo should bee mostly separate from the water.

Fully Informed Jury!

(http://www.fija.org/)

[dwarfer]

   
Poster: menthol_man
Subject: Re: pusdo distillation issues

with the baking soda the ph only gets to 7-8 maybe 9 tops.

<sup>Yeah, but as you heatit up the BI carb becomes Unicarb (sodium carbonate, washingsoda) with bubbles of CO2:the pH is between11.5 and 12.0:

ideal...</sup>

dwarfer

[Jetson]

foxy,  that's what jetson was counting on.  the psuedo being the only base coming through and then when the h2o does start distilling the ph should drop due to no base. 
_...