The Vespiary

The Hive => Tryptamine Chemistry => Topic started by: greeter on April 04, 2002, 08:28:00 AM

Title: How much heat wrecks psilocin/psilocybin
Post by: greeter on April 04, 2002, 08:28:00 AM: Does anyone have any idea how much heat wrecks psilocybin? I have read on here that smoking shrooms generally produces no high, but swim very nearly always boils shrooms and drinks the tea when he trips and the product is *very* active.
Title: Oxygen not heat.
Post by: terbium on April 04, 2002, 08:53:00 AM: Post 287062 (missing)
(Morbid_o: "Psilocybin decomposition", General Discourse)
Title: Doesn't decompose very easily
Post by: mottaman420 on April 04, 2002, 09:39:00 AM: Back in the day when we used to go pick cubies from a field we would throw them in a pot with some water, mash them up and boil it (the water turned black), and then starin out the chunks, add more water and a little koolaid, and voila. Mushrooms still hit just fine, rather potent as I remember. So based on this i don't think it decomposes horribly fast under moderate amounts of heat. But everything that i have read says that you shouldn't get it hot.
_.-==''SupaTokaBuDsMoka''==-._
'''''''GonnaGetHighTillIDie'''''''
Title: Reply to 'Doesn't decompose very easily'
Post by: locrian on April 04, 2002, 11:10:00 AM: Heating reduces psylocin apparently to a different indole, thus making your product approx., like what, 15% or so less depending on the shrooms? (Could be wrong %-wise, no flames). Psilocybin OTHO would remain straight, so the bulk majority of active material would be okay to simmer some, wouldn't apply any serious heat, although I guess this is okay as well. I think the seeming increase in potency is the fact that the shrooms are completely broken down and more of the active psilocybin is released and it hits the body faster and sooner. Kind of like how I believe crushed pressies fuck you up more than just swallowing a pill whole (x I'm talking about of course).

As to heating the pure active compound ...why? This seems like if there were a chance for psilocybin to get fucked up by heat, it would increase in an environment free of the fungal body. Then again, maybe not if you're completely grinding up dry shroomies anyways. Try it and find out, just don't over do it with heat, only what's necessary. Test small first of course.
We need new drugs.
Title: sorry about the confusion
Post by: greeter on April 04, 2002, 09:29:00 PM: Hey Terbium, nice post on your part about oxidation. Does this happen to the HCl salt or just the freebase? Anyway, if my post was unclear from above, swim *always* make tea because swim thinks shrooms taste like shit. Swim's recipe:

typically 1/16 to 1/8 oz. BONE DRY shrooms per person, depending on tolerance (typically 1/8 oz. each for veterans), ground extremely fine in a coffee grinder. dump shrooms into boiling hot water (10oz per person) and boil on high for 20min. turn heat off, toss in 5-6 bags of orange spice tea (caffeine free and *totally* masks the shroom flavor), let stand for a while and cool.

Drink up, get high. Alternatively, you can freeze the tea and take it at a later date (still just as active even months later).

ps: in case you don't know, shrooms typically aren't grown on shit when they're grown domestically. In a field, yes, but domestically grown shrooms are grown on rice and vermiculite typically (just trying to debunk some myths). They still taste like shit though ;)
Title: Not so much taste as texture.
Post by: terbium on April 04, 2002, 09:49:00 PM: I used to not bother with tea but just eat the 'shrooms straight - fresh or dried. A tea would be nice though as it is not so much the taste (I find that to be mild) of the 'shrooms as the texture that would sometimes make it difficult to get them down.

I would think that for making a tea, bringing the water to a strong boil before adding the 'shrooms would be good as this will get rid of any oxygen in the water. Also, adding some pure Vitamin C crystals should be good as Vitamin C is an anti-oxidant.
Title: Decontamination
Post by: 311311311 on April 04, 2002, 10:13:00 PM: Most people I know that make a tea or hot beverage out of their mushrooms do it for sanitary reasons. They DO pick the caps straight off of cow shit. Otherwise, you are just destroying part of your trip. If it is the taste/texture that bothers you, try blending the mushrooms with pulpy orange juice and drinking. It too can be kept for at least 2 months without a loss in potency.
Title: I love mushrooms, yeah yeah yeah
Post by: Morbid_o on April 04, 2002, 11:08:00 PM: SWIM made some tea the other night with some shrooms(7-8 fresh PC), to great results. Afterwards, he made a friend eat the shrooms that had been strained out(with a 1.5 caps and some stems mixed in) and both had decent trips although his previously boiled shrooms tasted like shit. Unfortunately, now the growth is slowing on the mycelium due to some devilish cobwebs.

Also, is growing on agar really *that* much better than traditional substrate?
"...a world in which opiates have become the religion of the masses."
-Neil Gaiman, American Gods
Title: More shroom info
Post by: greeter on April 05, 2002, 05:19:00 AM: swim likes the vitamin C addition idea. he will try that in the future. I also forgot to mention that swim does strain his shrooms before drinking the tea (through a coffee filter) and tosses the pulp. Swim thinks it's "nasty-and-a-half" to actually eat that shit after you boil it. Gross. You might was well eat the damn cake the shrooms grew on. BLEH.

As to growing substrate, swim had phenomenally good results with ground organic brown rice and vermiculite, per straight up PF. swim hasn't tried agar as the results were so overwhelmingly good.
Title: Agar is for mycelium.
Post by: terbium on April 05, 2002, 08:46:00 AM: Also, is growing on agar really *that* much better than traditional substrate?
Uh, not for producing mushrooms. Did someone say otherwise? Agar is used for propagating mycelium.
Title: Hmm
Post by: Morbid_o on April 05, 2002, 09:36:00 PM: ok, that makes more sense. so, basically, it's for spawning the mycelium, which is then transfered to some substrate?

i like this idea...seems like it could work well for some of the more difficult to grow strains.
"...a world in which opiates have become the religion of the masses."
-Neil Gaiman, American Gods
Title: not certain but
Post by: paranoid on April 06, 2002, 08:51:00 AM: I would speculate that in terms of growing large shroom volumes, agar would be less than ideal. It simply doesn't have a structure conducive to mycelial growth, as only the surface is aerobic. Bulky grains leave a large amount of surface area for strong colonization.
Title: Don't think its much to worry about as I've had ...
Post by: acid_egg on May 10, 2002, 12:03:00 AM: Don't think its much to worry about as I've had equivalent weights as tea and dried(from the same batch as well)well spaced to allow for tolerance,and the difference was negligible if at all.

Doesn't alot of the psilocybin get converted by the drying process to psilocin.
Brain-Wax^® and Elbow-Grease^® the choice of all good Chemists everywhere!
Title: psilocin
Post by: hest on May 10, 2002, 12:12:00 AM: Doesn't alot of the psilocybin get converted by the drying process to psilocin.
Nope
All the psilocin will oxidise over day's and all the psilocybin will oxidise over some month's
Title: Oh yea its eating that does that isn't it?
Post by: acid_egg on May 10, 2002, 01:49:00 AM
Title: Re: All the psilocin will oxidise over day's and ...
Post by: moo on May 10, 2002, 09:50:00 PM: All the psilocin will oxidise over day's and all the psilocybin will oxidise over some month's

Not quite... according to Journal of Cromatography, 244 (1982), 357-364, the psilocybin content of stored samples of P. Semilanceata decreased with increasing age of the mushroom. For example, the paper lists two 29-year-old specimens with 0.38% and 0.10% of psilocybin w/w and a 30-year-old with 0.05%.
Title: At least BP of water
Post by: mottaman420 on May 22, 2002, 03:46:00 AM: We used to mash our field cubies up and boild them and strain them with no signifigant loss in potency
Blue Horses + Red Donkeys = Purple Mules
Title: Loss
Post by: meme on May 23, 2002, 08:23:00 PM: Mushrooms lose potency as long as they are wet. Quickly and coolly dried, they will loose no potency for at least 6 mos., if stored in a cool dark place, or your money back ;D
No barbed wire can cage a bee.