pepper to piperidone

[white_rabbit]

Hay
Kick me in the ass for being new.... but I always figured "love and knowledge are the only things you can give away that enrich someone else life and in the giving you enrich yourself"

OK enough of my philosiphy
The question...
SWIM is thinking of some Rxn's that requior the dreaded (and closely watched) piperidone so he is going to get it the hard way and has gotten enough information to get from pepper to piperic acid... how do you get from PA to piperidone?

[moo]

You better start looking up and drawing those molecules if you want to learn anything at all. When you hydrolyze piperine, you get piperidine and piperic acid. Piperidone is structurally related to piperidine but you can't synthesize it from piperidine. So piperic acid has next to nothing to do with your question.

[white_rabbit]

hay SWIM dosnt have a merck index at home but has used TFSE and cant find anything on synthisizing piperidone this shit must come from somewhere unless it comes from meteorites that only strike the parking lots of chemical supply houses and the DEA parking garage (probably why they hate it so muuuuch) SWIM hasnt got a subscription to JACS or JOC or JMC or any of this good shit or he/she/it would do some research so give he/she/it a fucking break... if SWIM could be pointed in the right direction he/she/it (im gona abbreviate this from now on as S-he/ He / IT .. so SHIT would do some home work....

[algebra]

amine --> condensed with alkyl acrylate --> cyclization --> hydrolysis  --> piperidone --> utfse.

[Rhodium]

Liar. "Piperidone" gave 150 hits in TFSE.

[white_rabbit]

I havent ha d time to read all the way through the 150 threads

[moo]

You don't need a Merck Index.

http://www.chemfinder.com

isn't your only possibility either. Don't be so helpless.

[Organikum]

algebra, would you mind to point me somewhere where this is described not speculative but factual? I searched the HIVE but except some spekulative Fentanylsynthesises I got nuthing. (maybe my FSE karma is low, so have mercy if I was to stupid only....).
Will try at Rhodiums page for better luck now.

thanks
ORG

[algebra]

Orgy, maybe the se is a little thin when it comes to literature refs. 

Ritter, Cyrax, Blondie, PP were some bees interested in this.

Michael Condensation
methyl or ethyl acrylate with amine (pea), in alcohol or (possibly) without solvent.

Dieckmann Cyclization
cyclisation with sodium hydride or sodium metal in benzene or toluene alternatively with strong base Kt-BuO -forgotten the solvent. also phase transfer possibilities

Post 307716 (missing)

(Rhodium: "michael condensation", Chemistry Discourse) - example of the Michael addition

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/pdf/isocarfentanil2.pdf

isocarfentanil - fentanyl with a 3-carbomethoxy moiety (ie no hydrolysis step) prepped with PEA and acrylate followed by cyclisation

Post 308217 (missing)

(Ritter: "hydroolysis of carboalkyl group", Chemistry Discourse) - hydrolysis of the 3-carboalkoxy group

the route to 4-subst-piperidones via route discussed is not really speculative -and is well covered in the literature. i have some photocopied JOC, JACS stuff on piperidone synthesis mostly old - 1950's/60's but not at my present location. sort of lost interest in this stuff when decided that anilino-piperidines dont compare with the morphine based stuff when it comes to euphoirc potential - no interest in dissociatives