help on GBL -> NaGHB

[yobkcis]

So if a person obtains some GBL, and wants to make GHB... using the guide on Rhodium (ghb-r-us.txt) to make NaGHB,  - is the steam distillation step necessary?  I am not sure where to get a boiling stone.

Also, is this whole procedure something that can be safely done in a home kitchen?

Step 12a (ghb-r-us.txt) says "To make a liquid, add enough boiling water to make the dilution you want."    Is this done by adding water to the solution directly, or does it need to be boiling water before it is added?

Also, what is the best form of NaOH to use?  I have read of pellets, powder, and liquid.  I have also read of using Baking Soda to make GHB from GBL.  Any advice on easiest and safest methods?

I'm very inexeperienced and any advice on this whole process or answers to my questions would be very appreciated.

[StraightEdge]

It is unnecessary, but very easy to do. The boiling stone can just be a clear marble or piece of broken glass. (

Post 214613 (missing)

(Synthia: "Re: GHB purification", General Discourse) found by searching for "boiling stone ghb").

It can be done safely in a home kitchen, with the standard disclaimers. Make sure no passerby can see in the window. Wear goggles and gloves. Use the right glassware, and don't put a hot piece of glassware in cold water.

It does not matter whether the water you add in step 12a is already boiling or not. I'm guessing this is just so you don't use cold water and crack your beaker. Try to make it at least room temperature though.

Or you can just add water after the GHB has cooled and solidified. That will also give you the chance to weigh it first. If you don't want to do that, just weigh the beaker beforehand and then weigh the water that you will be adding in step 12a. Then weigh the beaker again with after step 12a, subtract the weights of the water and the beaker, and you wil get the weight of the final product.

I think using NaOH is a little easier, but baking soda is much safer. (

Post 283264

(Chromic: "Re: GHB synthesis - a must read", Methods Discourse) and

Post 283023

(Chromic: "GHB synthesis - a must read", Methods Discourse) found by searching for "baking soda ghb"). If you insist on using NaOH, the form is not important, only the purity. Use food grade, not lye.

[catfish]

Hi all-
SWIM used to just cook it 1:1 molar ratio bring the lactone up to 100'C and then drop in the base. Cook off the water and unreacted lactone as steam distill to lactone's bp (UTFSE), then cut the heat and pour into brownie pan. Let harden and cool, scrape up and weigh out 500g, cover with water in a GLASS microwave-safe container, and nuke it until it melts/dissolves. Place into 32-oz Haterade bottle and add balance of dH20. Dose by the cap, cap=~7.5 mLs. Don't ask SWIM any more, just do it, it works, just do it.
There was a bee named "ghbee" that used to post on the old board, that was how he did it. SWIM followed instructions, did the research, took necessary safety and security precautions, and never looked back!
-cfg

[StraightEdge]

You microwave the solid NaGHB after it has cooled? That is pointless. Doing that step implies that GHB will not dissolve in water unless it is melted (or something to that effect), which is false. Just dissolve the cooled solid in water at room temperature, it will work fine. Furthermore, I don't know what the melting point of a gatorade bottle is, but pouring hot melted NaGHB into a plastic bottle is only asking for problems.

[Dextrose]

Never ingest GHB, without checking the pH !!!

[catfish]

Hi all-
SWIM assumes facts not in evidence once again, apparently:
it is part of the procedure to check pH, no?  pH was consistently ~7. Some steps were left out as SWIM has not done this since GHB became illegal in SWIM's state (c. 1998)...and the basic steps are to bee found anywhere this synth is detailed!
SWIM is not responsible for writing up a detailed account of "ghbee"'s articles...if SWIY were here when the old boards were up, then SWIY would have seen them, like SWIM did, and as Rhodium has the complete synth on his site, SWIM sees no reason why SWIM should bee held responsible for another bees failure to UTFSE and do research like SWIM had to do!
NEXT
Has anybee ever tried to weigh molten NaGHB? Has anybee then been able to get that exact weight out of the tared container?
Didn't think so.
The reasoning behind cooling the "g" before weighing is that the solid is much easier to handle than the molten state...no inference was intended and anybee that has UTFSE'd would know that this is not the case. Reconstituting the "soap" in the microwave obviates the need for waiting an interminable amount of time for the "g" to dissolve...and if time is of the essence (as it often is), then nuking the "soap" is quicker and does nothing but save valuable time!
If the "quickie" was read properly, SWIY would note that WATER WAS TO ADDED TO COVER THE "SOAP", to make a solution.
c.f. above for reasons on why SWIM did not mention specific details...
This is no flame, SWIM just cannot remain silent while poor reading skills and nitpicking dominates a thread...instead of sharing a timesaving hint, SWIM should've just posted a fucking link, huh?
WRONG!
Innovation and sharing resources is why Strike started this site, or don't you own a copy of TSII?
-cfg

[yobkcis]

in Chromic's baking soda post, he first quoted a recipe using 2 parts water.  Then a couple posts down he said to use 4 parts water. 

1 part GBL, 1 part Baking Soda, 4 parts water... using the "crock pot" method seems to be the easiest and safest way i have read about.  I don't have lab equipment, and i am wanting to experiment without wasting the GBL to get a good product for my own recreational use!

[StraightEdge]

I don't know what material a crock pot is typically made out of, but if it is glass, you should be fine. Otherwise you would be better off buying a corningware (or other glass) saucepan.

As for the amount of water, go by Chromic's write-up:

Post 283023

(Chromic: "GHB synthesis - a must read", Methods Discourse)

[amine]

If you are going to use baking soda add the baking soda very slowly, CO2 evolves during the rxn and if you're not careful you can loose quiet of bit of product and have to clean it up

[catfish]

Hi all-

Post 91715 (missing)

(ghbee: "Re: Has anyone tried a gamma-Butyrolactone products?", Chemicals & Equipment)
-cfg

[StraightEdge]

That seems like a good procedure, if you choose go the NaOH route. Nowhere in the post does it say to microwave anything or remelt the cooled NaGHB immediately before pouring it into the gatorade bottle.

Besides, unless you are making massive amounts, it only takes a couple minutes to dissolve.

edit: according to

http://www.matweb.com/reference/deflection-temperature.asp

, the melting point of Polyethylene Terephthalate(PETE), the platic commonly used in Gatorade bottles, is 250C. So it should be able to handle melted NaGHB.

The melting point of HDPE, on the other hand, is only 130C, so if it comes into contact with hot NaGHB it will probably melt.

[catfish]

S-
SWIM's personal communication with ghbee indicated that the aqueous solution was to bee made via nuking and then poured into the Haterade bottle, and the balance made up by adding dH2O to make 32 oz.
Also referenced in the post is the mention of pouring out the soap to cool or making a solution...
ghbee also told SWIM that since the lactone came in 2.5 kilo bottles, it made no sense to do little batches, i.e. 500 g (of lactone) at a time was a small as it went.
Back to the "melting" issue, once again, to reiterate, the aqueous solution was used, not pure molten soap, so the continued reference to "melting" is lost on SWIM:
if a bee were to pour molten anything into any container, and add cool solvent, chances are that the compound in question would merely harden right away w/o dissolving
BUT
if one were to heat the solvent first, there would bee a better chance of partial to complete dissolution
AND
if the solvent is to bee heated anyways, might as well just throw the compound, solvent, and all in the micro and do it all at once, assuming that the compound and solvent in question are not affected unduly by microwaves.
-cfg
PS-an email to ghbee seems to bee in order...

[StraightEdge]

Why are you acting as if ghbee's procedure is the do all end all of GHB synthesis? GHBee has a total of 26 posts, none of them unusually intelligent or ground-breaking. Is there some reason you insist on following this person's procedure to the t?

I did not notice the part about adding water before microwaving. That makes more sense. It is useful as a time saving hint, but is not a necessary part of the procedure, as was implied by the sentence, "Don't ask SWIM any more, just do it, it works, just do it."

[catfish]

S-
1) SWIM does not conduct this kind of synth anymore, as to do so would bee in violation of both state and federal statutes
2) ghbee's synth, at the time, was S.O.P. as far as technique and reagents
3) ghbee seems to have posted primarily about the subject in question, and little else; SWIM is not one to judge intelligence based on reading amateur research papers
4) instead of attacking the obviously dated synth, perhaps updating the original poster in this thread would bee more effective than simply going back and forth on issues of technique of which the primary poster knows nothing.
Having put that to rest, it stands to reason that bicarbonate or carbonate would bee way more OTC than other forms of base, not to mention safer to work with.
Denatured alcohol may bee substituted for ethanol in the anhydrous procedure, but caution: the denaturant, methanol, is very toxic and the final product MUST be dried thoroughly of solvent before assay.
Microwaving of flammable solvents is not recommended without proper precautions.
And, of course, NEVER mix alcohol and any GHB derivative for consumption in any proportions!
-cfg

[StraightEdge]

I did update the poster, in my first and only useful post in this thread. Everything I wrote after that was just trolling.