The Vespiary

The Hive => Chemistry Discourse => Topic started by: Vibrating_Lights on March 11, 2002, 05:31:00 AM

Title: Tma from Tmma
Post by: Vibrating_Lights on March 11, 2002, 05:31:00 AM

Tfse yeilded  aset of pallendrome posts.  SWim is looking for a way to remove the Methyl leaving NH2 that would be suitable for use with a slew of Methoxys to worry about.
VL_

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: PrimoPyro on March 11, 2002, 05:32:00 AM

I dont understand your reasoning or plan behind this. Where is the TMMA coming from?

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Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: Chromic on March 11, 2002, 05:53:00 AM

TMMA-2 is quite boring, even at 250mg so I see your reason to remove that N-methyl group.

TMA-2 is much more interesting, but still, high doses are recommended (~80mg is fun). You should form the NH3 imine and reduce or form the NH2OH ketoxime and reduce, do not bother with forming the N-methyl derivative then trying to cleave the group.

Good luck with everything.

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: Vibrating_Lights on March 11, 2002, 06:46:00 AM

Swims friens were board and wont have any hydroxlamine for a week and wanted to scheme up some visuals for the weekend.  The Tmma is Vl_'s secret for now until it is properly exploited. Possible Completely Otc 55%overall yeild synth with no NaBH4 or exotic shit,  I'm sure chromic Knows what i'm talking about don't tell em yet. TeeHee
VL_

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: Flinger on March 11, 2002, 07:43:00 AM

um from whatever precursors [very cheap] um ussing the zinc and finally heating that up in ammonial alkali.  Sounds easy perhaps other novel more natural starting meterials will yield more potent variations.

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: otto on March 11, 2002, 08:34:00 PM

hi chromic,

may i adress some questions to you?
first is: 80 mgs TMA-2 sounds pretty hardcore, what about bodyloud. can you give a report eventually?
second: otto has unexpectedly difficulties in getting TMA-2 from ketone using NH3 in MeOH and Pd/C - Hydrogenation. ammonium acetate in MeOH with MgSO4/silica gel and NaBH4 was dreamed of, but work-up is still to be done.
what procedure would you suggest?

otto

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: Rhodium on March 11, 2002, 09:05:00 PM

I cannot think of ANY practical method for removing the methyl group of TMMA.

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: PolytheneSam on March 11, 2002, 09:22:00 PM

Maybe NH3 and Ni would work, ie. the NH3 would have to replace the MeNH2 in the imine. 

Post 43613 (missing)

(CHEM_GUY: "Text implies Possible isomerization of l-meth", Chemistry Discourse)

Post 75995 (missing)

(PolytheneSam: "Re: Text implies Possible isomerization of l-meth", Chemistry Discourse)

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Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: Vibrating_Lights on March 12, 2002, 02:14:00 AM

Otto:
By what method did you make the ketone.
Any way make the Oxime with hydroxlamine  then do an acidic Al/Hg of the oxime with 10eq. of AcOH in EtOH.  put all of the oxime in then add preamalgamated Al dropwise.  that should work.  you'll lose a small portion of the methoxys.
VL_

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: Chromic on March 12, 2002, 04:59:00 AM

Yeah, the body load was very harsh from TMA-2. TMMA-2 did not have nearly as much body load, it was much lighter like DMMDMA-2, although slightly more confusing (my thoughts were confused) at similar dosage levels (250mg).

My heart rate hit 120 bpm and the good visuals did not kick in until ~3hrs at 75mg of TMA-2, the body load was heavy, dancing was not really possible but sitting around and talking was lots of fun. At the time I had no realization that I was so high (in retrospect it become obvious). The confusion was absolutely PROFOUND. Still, it lacked the visuals I'm used to with good LSD. Pupil dilation was not as strong as what 100mg of MDMA does to me, although they were definitely dilated.

I've heard of a much respected bee who thought 150mg of TMA-2 was absolutely enjoyable. Not quite for me, but I'd feel comfortable pushing it further than 75mg. I'm not sure what route is best. I've been going after reducing the ketoxime made from a peracetic, but I haven't had much good luck.

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: hest on March 12, 2002, 11:12:00 AM

The fun starts at 1.2mg/kg.
Why not just use the old leuchart ??https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/archive/leuckart.pdf

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: otto on March 12, 2002, 09:07:00 PM

thanx Vibrating_Lights,

otto will try to get some NH2OH then.
the ketone was made in 2 steps from asarone (vak-dest from indian oil of calamus). first was osmium - catalysed dihydroxylation (sharpless-dihydroxylation, non-chiral), which gave the diol as an almost white solid and second 2 hours @ 80°C in 15% H2SO4. the resulting Ketone was not totally clean (as indicated by TLC). it had a pleasant smell reminiscent to that of bananas, when they are already sparkled with black spots.

TLC - data (petrol ether/ethyl acetate 4:1):

asarone     0,55
diol        0
ketone      0,2

otto

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: Precursor2112 on March 18, 2002, 12:34:00 AM

Okay...whats TMA-2 like....

Title: Re: Tma from Tmma
Post by: Rhodium on March 18, 2002, 01:29:00 AM

TMA-2:

http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal158.shtml (http://www.erowid.org/library/books_online/pihkal/pihkal158.shtml)