Author Topic: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate  (Read 17831 times)

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PolytheneSam

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ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« on: September 29, 2001, 01:16:00 AM »
This might not be novel, but if applied to other phenols it might be.  According to US patent 2490842 anisole can be made from phenol and CH3MSO4 where M can be a metal such as sodium or potassium or it can be NH4.  Example 2 uses methyl sodium sulfate to make anisole from phenol.  Note also that the patent was assigned to du Pont.  Also see US patent 2031719 on condensing phenol and alcohols with ZnCl2.

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Antoncho

  • Guest
Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2001, 07:01:00 AM »

This might not be novel, but if applied to other phenols it might be.




Yes, i posted it (and one more interesting rxn) a  while ago - see

Post 191179 (missing)

(Antoncho: "Alkylations of phenols with sodium alkylsulfates", Chemistry Discourse). Didn't get a single fucken reply to it.

Well, at least you know now that someone besides you is interested :)  :)  :)

Antoncho


PolytheneSam

  • Guest
Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2001, 06:00:00 PM »
Looks like obituary replied, so its not dead yet.  Wait a minute, does that make sense?
Yeah, I don't remember your post, Antoncho, and I thought I caught all the important stuff since I look at the hive every day.  I recently became interested in these reactions.  Dimethyl sulfate is toxic and hazardous (I read things about the fumes being dangerous) and you seem to need SO3 and/or fuming H2SO4 to make, as well as, vacuum distillation.  Concentrated  H2SO4 might work, but the yields seem to be low.  Methyl halides might be an alternative, but methyl bromide boils at ~4 º C, methyl iodide has a higher bp (42.5º C) but iodine is more expensive.  So, I looked through class 568 subclasses 628, 630, 648, 654 and 657 on methods of making aryl-alkyl ethers, and class 558 subclasses 20, 21, 38, 39, 40, 41 and 43 for various ways of making alkyl sulfates and alkyl hydrogen sulfates.  I have a lot of patents listed which I can sort out and post.

http://www.geocities.com/dritte123/PSPF.html

Antoncho

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Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #3 on: September 29, 2001, 07:10:00 PM »

I have a lot of patents listed which I can sort out and post.




Oh, please, would you? I'd bee very grateful.

Sincerely Yours,

Antoncho


PolytheneSam

  • Guest
Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #4 on: September 29, 2001, 07:40:00 PM »
I'll start out with the patents on alkyl sulfates and alkyl hydrogen sulfates (class 558).  Some of them discuss the use of Na2SO4 as a drying agent, too.  I finished the areas before 1975 since they're images only (568/654, 657 and 630 complete) and decided to finish the rest by looking at the text on the internet at 56K, later. Here's what I got in my notes so far.

1411215 Na2SO4
2062454 RHSO4 + MCl --> RMSO4 + HCl (M = metal)
2176005 RCaSO4
2688035 use of alkali carbonates
3305578 R(amine)SO4, ie. R(R'NH2)SO4
4146551 Mg salt of RHSO4
3829457 RMSO4 from ROH & SO2 and O2
1599119 ferrous and cuprous catalyst for ethylene
1589372 ethylene catalysts
1574796 ethylene catalysts
1478498 ZnCl2
1484249
1641005 SO2Cl2 & alcohol --> alkyl sulfates
1998411 RMSO4
3024263 2NaHSO4 + C2H5OH = C2H5HSO4 + Na2SO4 + H2O ; Na2SO4 dehydration
3047604 Na2SO4
3232976 interesting aspirator pump apparatus

I didn't find anything on making methylene sulfate.  I wonder how it's made assuming it exists. 

Post 218253 (missing)

(PolytheneSam: "methylene sulfate", Chemistry Discourse)



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terbium

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Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #5 on: September 29, 2001, 10:03:00 PM »
I didn't find anything on making methylene sulfate.  I wonder how it's made assuming it exists. 
AFAIK, it doesn't exist.

PolytheneSam

  • Guest
Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #6 on: September 29, 2001, 10:10:00 PM »
What does AFAIK stand for and why is it in the patents listed in this post?

Post 218253 (missing)

(PolytheneSam: "methylene sulfate", Chemistry Discourse)


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obituary

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Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #7 on: September 29, 2001, 10:31:00 PM »
AFAIK= as far as i know
and obit believes that the existence of isolated methylene sulfate has been ruled out already for it's tendency to form methyl sulfate or dimethylsulfate  or something like that-

terbium

  • Guest
Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #8 on: September 29, 2001, 10:35:00 PM »
AFAIK - As Far As I Know

I was just looking at your post that has those three patents. Of the three, after quickly skimming the text, I was only able to find the mention of methylene sulfate in one of them. I will try looking through the others again when I have more time.

It is interesting that in the one patent where I saw the mention it was as methylene sulfate as a formaldehyde source.

As to why methylene sulfate was mentioned in these patents. Remember that methylene sulfate was not central to any of these patents. Methylene sulfate was likely mentioned just to cover all bases. The thinking might have been like this: "I don't know whether methylene sulfate exists or not but I will mention it just in case so that if it does exist someone would not be able to use methylene sulfate to avoid this patent".

Osmium

  • Guest
Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2001, 11:30:00 AM »
MSO3-O-Me is formed during the usual DMS methylations. Only one of the DMS methyl groups reacts under regular reaction conditions. Using the second Me means anhydrous reaction conditions.

Back to the topic of the thread:
dialkyl carbonates, phosphoric acid trialkyl esters, toluene sulfonic acid esters etc.

Alkyl halogenides are expensive, dangerous and have low boiling points. Dimethyl carbonate on the other hand is cheap and can be used as a safe DMS substitute, and so can trimethyl phosphate if I remember correctly (also cheap and quite safe). Same goes for the ethyl esters.


uemura

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Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #10 on: October 06, 2001, 10:08:00 AM »
Bees,
there has been a post - see

Post 71469 (missing)

(uemura: "trimethyl phosphate", Chemistry Discourse)
- by uemura on trimethyl phosphate some time ago.
BTW: Trimethyl phosphate can be made from P2O5 and MeOH.
Carpe Diem

PolytheneSam

  • Guest
Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #11 on: October 07, 2001, 01:59:00 AM »
Here's some patents from class 568 subclasses 657, 654, 630 and 648 on aryl-alkyl ethers.  I'll just put down what I have in my notes.  See the patent for more information.

2052745 refining anethole
2233080 ArOH + RX + MOH --> ArOR + MX + H2O (M = metal)
2516412 syringaldehyde, MeBr for MeO-
797024 CH3Cl
1801901 EtCl
2031719 ZnCl
2070848 RCl
2103736 phospho Mo/W catalyst
2487832 dimethyl ether used to make ArOMe
2490842 M(Me)SO4, (M = metal)
2727926 ØCOOH --> ØOH
3911022 ØOH + ester --> ØOR
5817886 phenol + MeOH + catalyst
4918241 aryl iodides --> phenols
4765455 phenols + alcohols, sulfated oxide of Cr/Mo/mixture catalyst
4675454 phenols + alcohols, sulfated oxide of Cr/Mo/mixture catalyst
4611084 phenols + alcohols, sulfated oxide of Mn/Re/mixture catalyst
4638098 phenols + alcohols, sulfated oxide of Zn/Cd/Hg/mixture catalyst
2067960 hydroquinone + RX in ROH
2235884 hydroquinone + RX in ROH
2439375 3,4-MD-phenyl --Ni--> phenol
2676947 dimethoxystyrene
2694736 Hg and Ni catalyst
2782239 alcohols & catalyst, hydroquinone and alumina-silicate catalyst 550º F
2847477 Hg acetate catalyst

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PolytheneSam

  • Guest
Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #12 on: October 19, 2001, 02:40:00 AM »
Here's page 3 from British patent 646736.  Note in example 2, the use of methyl hydrogen sulfate and NaOH.   Webshots automatically resized the image to a smaller size.  I could scan all 5 pages and put it in another place so it would have a higher resolution if anyone is interested.



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PolytheneSam

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Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #14 on: October 21, 2001, 04:51:00 AM »
Can someone translate this. 



Here's the English abstract.



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Antoncho

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Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #15 on: October 21, 2001, 11:52:00 AM »
A method of etherification of phenols is known, in which the ethers are made by reacting phenols w/methanol in presence of acidic catalysts such as methylsulfuric acid (!!) Al2O3, alumosilicates.
For the purpose of simplification it is suggested to carry out this rxn w/an cation-exchange resin catalyst KU-2 (no clue as to what it is). This catalyst is stable and suitable for multiple usage.



Ex. 1 - 0,5 mole C6H5OH, methanol (0,5-2,0 mole) and 23 g of KU-2 are heated at 110 C in a reactor for 10 hours. The liquid products are filtered from the resin and the product is fractionated to get anisole (56% from the initiate amt. of phenol), unreacted phenol and tarry residue (~2%) Yield is 98% based upon the reacted phenol. (that's what these motherfuckers meant by 98% yield :( )

Ex. 2 - 0,5 mole o-cresol, 0,7-1,2 mole methanol, 23 g KU-2, 11 h at 115 C. Yield 38% to the whole mass of cresol, 96,5% to the reacted, 3% tar.



Well, i guess it's not really suitable for kitchen :( ...  That methylsulfuric part sounds interesting, though.

Antoncho

PolytheneSam

  • Guest
Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #16 on: October 21, 2001, 04:10:00 PM »
Methyl sulfuric acid sounds like its the same thing as methyl hydrogen sulfate which you get when you mix methanol and sulfuric acid.  I don't know how far to the right (of the equation) the reaction goes.  If you mix methanol and sulfuric acid you probably get a mixture of methyl hydrogen sulfate, methanol, sulfuric acid and water (from the methanol and sulfuric acid).  Maybe I could find the equalibrium constant somewhere.  Did you look at that British patent two posts up?  Example 2 uses methyl hydrogen sulfate and the anisole is steam distilled out of the mixture.  Note that the etherification is done in the presence of water.  I'm wondering if it would work if you mixed methanol and sulfuric and let it react to form methyl hydrogen sulfate and then use that without any H2O removal before use.  See also US patents 3024263 and 3047604 which discuss ethyl hydrogen sulfate.

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PolytheneSam

  • Guest
Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #17 on: October 21, 2001, 06:32:00 PM »
OK, another one, Antoncho, please.  Here's the English abstract.  I'll just post the links to pages 1 and 2 of the patent (USSR No. 141159).



http://wsphotofews.excite.com/001/S0/Q4/rf/Eq33431.jpg



http://wsphotofews.excite.com/017/UX/yI/zR/F056508.jpg



http://www.geocities.com/dritte123/PSPF.html

Antoncho

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Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #18 on: October 25, 2001, 07:20:00 AM »
Sammy!!!

i'm in debt to you for ever, ever-ever!!!

You finally DID it! It is unfuckingbelieveable, but true!
Needless to say, catechol is a sensitive compd and if you can mehylate it w/NaMeSO4 the same method will rather certainly work on hydroquinone and the aldehydes.

I won't translate these russian links since they contain no other info than already posted. They will bee very much appreciated by my fellow russian bees, though. The only thing the english abstract doesn't mention is the prep'n of NaMeSO4: "...265 g of methylsulfuric acid is neutralized w/235-237 g of 42% NaOH soln. with stirring, the temp. should bee around 28 C."

The pure alkylsulfuric acids themselves are very conveniently prepared in almost quantative yield by a method submitted by our dear comrade Foxy2 - the one with EtOH/H2SO4/NaSO4 - see

Post 216461

(foxy2: "Ethyl hydrogen sulfate", Chemistry Discourse)
. There's also a US patent # 3,024,263 found by - guess whom ;)  - our admirable PolytheneSam, naturally, which describes a similar process, but using NaHSO4 (hydrate) and alcohol.

SWIM have tried the 1st method and is firmly certain that it works exactly as described. Well, Foxy2 didn't give the exact procedure, just the outline, so SWIM just used his common sence and the info he grasped from the said US patent, so it's not optimized, but anyway here's what he did:



100 cc (2 mole) of 92% H2SO4 were dripped into 100 cc (2.2 mole) of methanol in ice bath w/good stirring. You can skip all this precautions at this stage but you do need to chill the rxn well. The resulting mixtr had a reddish tint. Then in it was dropped 80 g of powdered anhydrous Na2SO4. This is probably an overkill as Na2SO4 forms a decahydrate at below 32 C. Just to bee sure. The mixtr was then heated in boiling water for 10 mins - again just to bee sure (Foxy2's proc. mentioned RT, but in the US patent as well as in the proc. on Rhodium's heating was employed) and cooled to below RT in cold water, with frequent shaking. SWIM left it at RT for some time, periodically giving it a shake, to ensure all the water has been absorbed. It was then vacuum filtered through a paper filter, the Buchner closed w/a lid to exclude atmospheric moisture, and kept in a freezer overnight.

Thus obtained methylsulfuric acid was a viscous off-white liquid with density of 1,32 g/cm3 and amounted to 100 ml (1.2 mole) - much of it left in the filtered sulfate - a good source of vacuum (SWIM's is very  bad) and less Na2SO4 probably should bee used to improve the yield.

This acid was dripped with good stirring and chilling in ice bath into a slight molar excess of NaHCO3 in some water - a little more than enough to cover the soda. The mixtr actually thickens as neutralization proceeds. Thus obtained homogenous fine paste was evap'd on a steam bath aided w/a hair dryer - now note this the alkylsulfates (ethyl too) obviously have mp lower than 100 C - at least they will never look dry while hot and solidify upon cooling.

Thus obtained salt was further dryed in exicator for 2-3 days over CaO.

A 5 g sample of the salt was dissolved in a minimum of hot water and reacted w/sat'd CaCl2 soln. The precipitate was filtered, washed, flame-dried to give 1,5 g of CaSO4*1/2H2O which corresponds to NaMeSO4 content of approx. 71% -  8) !



These procedures were also performed with ethanol instead of methanol by a russian bee named Vitsh with whom SWIM worked on this project hand-in-hand. His results were essentially the same except he got his ethylsulfate content only 50% - and Antoncho strongly believes it was because of his inverted neutralization technique - he added sat'd Na2CO3 soln to the acid.

Now this will bee obvious to many but still allow me some notes on the issue of neutralization.
The very clever ::)  authors of the russian patent don't mention if the acid was added to the alkali or backwards. From the precise wording of their phrases Antoncho guesses that they did the latter.
Now, it is a well-known fact that alkylsulfuric acid salt are stable, but the acids themselves exist in aq. solutions in equilibrium w/AlkOH/H2SO4, which is about fifty-fifty. This means the following: suppose during neutralization the soln. has become acidic. A molecule of an alkylsulfuric acid hydrolizes to H2SO4 , which, unlike the former, is a two-hydrogen (what's the correct term in English?) acid and reacts with two molecules of NaAlkSO4, producing two molecules of AlkHSO4, which in turn react with four molecules of NaAlkSO4 and so forth - as you see, this rxn proceeds in geometrical progression - that is, FAST - and stops when the equilibrium point (~50%/50%) is reached.

Another empirical data comes from one more experiment of SWIM's - he dripped MeHSO4 into ice-chilled sat'd NaOH taking pH every now and then. SWIM was afraid to have leftover NaOH in his mixtr as nitromethane forms explosive salts with it. So the rxn accidentally got acidic for like not more than 2 mins and - voila! - he got his sulfate content that very 50%.

Oh gosh that's enough for now :)

Antoncho

Rhodium

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Re: ArOR, Alternatives to dimethyl sulfate
« Reply #19 on: October 25, 2001, 11:31:00 AM »
The correct english term for a "two-proton acid" is "dibasic acid" afaik.