Author Topic: OTC GBL?  (Read 4197 times)

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M3Psych

  • Guest
OTC GBL?
« on: February 06, 2003, 05:18:00 PM »
SWIM has found a very widely available and OTC source of what she believes might be gamma butyrolactone. The problem is there are no ingredients listed (which is suspicious in and of itself) and the only way to contact the company is by mail. The product is from an American company and is sold as a type of cleaner (being deliberately vague) and is touted as being biodegradeable, non-toxic, non-flammable, water soluble and with low vapor. On the package is a warning about keeping solution away from plastics, painted surfaces and varnish. It is sold in HDPE plastic bottles.

SWIM no longer has access to any laboratory equipment, including anything for distillation. Is there a way she can determine if this is in fact butyrolactone?

A preliminary test with a small amount of the solution swirled with baking soda or Red Devil failed to produce any heat evolution. However, SWIM's GBL in the past also failed these tests.

The solution dissolves styrofoam, after shaken vigorously bubbles dissappear almost immediately, the solution smells very similar to GBL (has a definate lactone smell), has a salty/bitter taste, causes a burning of the tongue on contact and has a greasy feeling which is nearly identical to butyrolactone. Prolonged inhalation of vapors failed to produce any noticable effect.

SWIM has not decided if she will charcoal filter, dilute and ingest small amounts of the solution yet. She would rather wait to see if the nature of the material can be identified through other means first.

SWIM would be willing to give out product details to the right person for distillation analysis (Chromic, Rhodium, etc) if they wished to purchase and test product, provided confidentiality was assured. SWIM has been looking for an OTC source of relatively pure GBL for months and would be none-too-happy if word got around and the product was pulled. The product itself is quite cheap, 4oz of the liquid is sold for well under $10. SWIM would even be willing to donate to Rhodium's fund to cover the cost of purchasing the solution. As stated above, it's widely and easily available in the U.S.

SWIM doesn't believe it's is GVL because previous tests she has conducted with GVL and baking soda produced noticeable "fizzing" and heat evolution, and GVL has a different, more "toxic" smell.

chiliuno

  • Guest
i'm still new here, but i'm rather well set up
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2003, 07:57:00 PM »
i'm still new here, but i'm rather well set up for assay and would be more than happy to test some and let you know.  my email is chiliuno@ziplip.com-


TheBlindGenius

  • Guest
GBL should evaporate at 204-206 degrees ...
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2003, 10:54:00 PM »
GBL should evaporate at 204-206 degrees Celsius, or about 403 degrees Fahrenheit.  I guess you might be able to do this in the kitchen stove with a candy thermometer or something?


odin

  • Guest
Distillation apparatus!
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2003, 11:09:00 PM »
I am sure that you can construct some kind of distill. apparatus. Then you can determine BP what i good for start!


scram

  • Guest
Man, just locate the distributer or ...
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2003, 07:05:00 PM »
Man, just locate the distributer or manufacturer thru Thomas Registry, internet, whatever and email them (this is the 90's, everyone has email now) for the MSDS. Companies are usually very professional about this and ask no questions for the request.

M3Psych

  • Guest
MSDS
« Reply #5 on: February 07, 2003, 09:40:00 PM »
SECTION II

Hazardous Components / CAS / OSHA PEL
-------------------------------------

Ethanol / 64-17-5 / 1000 ppm
Proprietary Ingredient

SECTION III - Physical/Chemical Characteristics

BP: 209 C
SG: 0.97
VP: < 0.1 mmHg
MP: NA
VD: 6.6
ER: < 1
H20 SOLUBILITY: > 20%
APPEARANCE/ODOR: Colorless liquid, sweet odor

SECTION IV

Flash Pt: 110 C
Flammable Limits - LEL: 1.2  UEL: 5.4

Well, it doesn't look promising. I cannot figure out what this "proprietary" chemical is. I've found it in a number of other MSDS listed as a propritary ingredient (idential chemical characteristics) in "medical adhesive glue remover" but the name eludes me. Not like it matters anyway, since it's probably not anything fun.

JonnyDanger

  • Guest
I suggest testing the PH...
« Reply #6 on: July 26, 2003, 12:33:00 AM »
I suggest testing the PH... GBL should be around 3-4. Or if you have some NaOH lying around, maybe you should try reacting your cleaner with it and see what happens.

LaBTop

  • Guest
GBL MSDS
« Reply #7 on: July 26, 2003, 12:35:00 PM »
Fisher - gamma-Butyrolactone CAS nr. 96-48-0 :

http://207.164.47.67/catalog/en/Default.asp?cat=ChemicalDry%2DOrganicNon%2DGraded&expand=True#ChemicalDry-OrganicNon-Graded

  :

Fisher Scientific Cat# AC108135000   
Description: GAMMA-BUTYROLACTONE, 99+ 500ML :  (MSDS) :

http://www.fishersci.ca/msds2.nsf/0/37A6C8D2E315ACD185256CA500007EF3/%24file/MSDS-63860.html?open



Partial info from above link :

SECTION 9 - PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES
Physical State:   Liquid
Color:   colorless
Odor:   Mild caramel odor
pH:   Not available.
Vapor Pressure:   1.5 hPa @ 20 C
Vapor Density:   3.0
Evaporation Rate:   Not available.
Viscosity:   Not available.
Boiling Point:   204 - 205 deg C
Freezing/Melting Point:   -45 deg C
Decomposition Temperature:
Solubility in water:   Miscible.
Specific Gravity/Density:   1.1200g/cm3
Molecular Formula:   C4H6O2
Molecular Weight:   86.09

SECTION 10 - STABILITY AND REACTIVITY

Chemical Stability:   Stable under normal temperatures and pressures.
Conditions to Avoid:   Excess heat, exposure to moist air or water.
Incompatibilities with Other Materials:   Strong oxidizing agents - strong acids - strong bases - strong reducing agents.
Hazardous Decomposition Products:   Carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide.
Hazardous Polymerization:   Has not been reported.

SECTION 11 - TOXICOLOGICAL INFORMATION

RTECS#:
CAS# 96-48-0: LU3500000
LD50/LC50:
CAS# 96-48-0: Dermal, guinea pig: LD50 = >5 gm/kg; Draize test, rabbit, skin: 500 uL Severe; Inhalation, rat: LC50 = >5100 mg/m3/4H; Oral, mouse: LD50 = 1460 mg/kg; Oral, rat: LD50 = 1540 mg/kg.

STATE

gamma-Butyrolactone is not present on state lists from CA, PA, MN, MA, FL, or NJ.
California No Significant Risk Level: None of the chemicals in this product are listed.

European/International Regulations

European Labeling in Accordance with EC Directives
Hazard Symbols: XN
Risk Phrases:
R 40 Limited evidence of a carcinogenic effect.
Safety Phrases:
S 26 In case of contact with eyes, rinse immediately with plenty of water and seek medical advice.
S 39 Wear eye/face protection.
WGK (Water Danger/Protection)
CAS# 96-48-0: 1
United Kingdom Occupational Exposure Limits

United Kingdom Maximum Exposure Limits

Canada
CAS# 96-48-0 is listed on Canada's DSL List.
This product has a WHMIS classification of D2B.
CAS# 96-48-0 is not listed on Canada's Ingredient Disclosure List.

SECTION 16 - ADDITIONAL INFORMATION

MSDS Creation Date:   10/21/1998,   Revision #2 Date:  2/07/2003

The information above is believed to be accurate and represents the best information currently available to us. However, we make no warranty of merchantability or any other warranty, express or implied, with respect to such information, and we assume no liability resulting from its use. Users should make their own investigations to determine the suitability of the information for their particular purposes. In no way shall the company be liable for any claims, losses, or damages of any third party or for lost profits or any special, indirect, incidental, consequential or exemplary damages, howsoever arising, even if the company has been advised of the possibility of such damages.

==================================================================

http://207.164.47.67/catalog/en/Default.asp?cat=ChemicalDry%2DOrganicNon%2DGraded&expand=True#ChemicalDry-OrganicNon-Graded


Fisher Scientific Cat# AC275070250  
Description: 2-HYDROXY-GAMMA-BUTYROLA 25GR (MSDS) :

http://www.fishersci.ca/msds2.nsf/0/F7591EB44E59081A85256CA50001CEAC/%24file/MSDS-86430.html?open

:

SECTION 9 - PHYSICAL AND CHEMICAL PROPERTIES

Physical State:   Liquid
Color:   clear, colorless
Odor:   Not available.
pH:   Not available.
Vapor Pressure:   Not available.
Vapor Density:   3.5
Evaporation Rate:   Not available.
Viscosity:   Not available.
Boiling Point:   85.0 - 90.0 deg C @ .80mbar
Freezing/Melting Point:   0 deg C
Decomposition Temperature:
Solubility in water:
Specific Gravity/Density:   1.313
Molecular Formula:   C4H6O3
Molecular Weight:   102.09

STATE

2-Hydroxy-Gamma-Butyrolactone is not present on state lists from CA, PA, MN, MA, FL, or NJ.
California No Significant Risk Level: None of the chemicals in this product are listed.

Canada
None of the chemicals in this product are listed on the DSL/NDSL list.
WHMIS: Not available.
CAS# 19444-84-9 is not listed on Canada's Ingredient Disclosure List.

SECTION 16 - ADDITIONAL INFORMATION
MSDS Creation Date:   6/05/1998,   Revision #2 Date:  7/25/2001

===============================================================

Data most important for you, with your limited resources:

GAMMA-BUTYROLACTONE :
Physical State:   Liquid
Color:   colorless
Odor:   Mild caramel odor
Boiling Point:   204 - 205 deg C
Freezing/Melting Point:   -45 deg C (can be reached with dry ice)
Solubility in water:   Miscible.
Specific Gravity/Density:   1.1200g/cm3 (UTFSE with words: Specific Gravity or Density)

2-HYDROXY-GAMMA-BUTYROLACTONE :
Physical State:   Liquid
Color:   clear, colorless
Boiling Point:   85.0 - 90.0 deg C @ .80mbar
Freezing/Melting Point:   0 deg C
Specific Gravity/Density:   1.313 (Check density compared to gamma-butyrolactone)

You should use TFSE for words : TLC
Then you could perhaps obtain from a reliable source a small sample of gamma-butyrolactone and run 2 TLC's on this sample and compare it to a sample of your find. First boil your sample 30 min to remove that alcohol compound. (but 1000 ppm (parts per million) should not interfere too much, but better be sure to have removed all volatile additions)

Further on, constructing a simple condenser from a glasspipe and a 2x bigger but 10 cm shorter other glasspipe and 2 rubber stoppers with a big hole and a small hole (that one to fit in your water hoses) is childplay. You don't need vacuum. LT/


Aurelius

  • Guest
LT
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2003, 12:36:00 AM »
Thanks for that last post LT, will be included in the GBL/GHB Compilation.


LaBTop

  • Guest
That was an "advanced" type of Search :
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2003, 03:40:00 PM »
Search for gamma-Butyrolactone :

First went to my own Digest: ©HIVE® Laboratory Safety & Data Sheets :

Post 440024 (missing)

(LaBTop: "©HIVE® Laboratory Safety & Data Sheets", Newbee Forum)
.
Went there to MSDS title. Used the first link.
Copy/Pasted the word gamma-Butyrolactone from one of these above posts in the first small box of that link and hit Search.
Came up with >20 CAS references with butyrolactone in it from Fisher Scientific Canada (safer to search for USA members ! ).
If you click any of these links however, you get a "" Can't find"" new page.
In my case, I know what causes this, Fisher locks out outsite linking, so, I clicked on that "" Can't find "" page the proposed solution : go to Fisher Canada's Main page.
There I clicked in the top right the words -Search- this site.
Then Pasted my still in the Clipboard hanging word - gamma-Butyrolactone - in the Search box and hit Enter.
A nearly blank page came up with one clickable entry, hit that one and got now clickable entries with butyrolactone in it, choosed the 2 entries I looked for, VOILA!

so, FROM NOW ON DON'T ASK ANYMORE, FIND cas NR ENTRIES YOURSELF, MY DEAR GUESTS. LT/


Chromic

  • Guest
GBL
« Reply #10 on: August 29, 2003, 07:48:00 AM »
GBL has a pH of 7. It isn't until after prolonged contact with water will it drop to a pH of 2-4. Mixing GBL with NaOH or baking soda will not produce a reaction. NaOH and water with GBL will react producing lots of heat. Baking soda (1 part) and water (4 parts) with GBL (1 part) will react, but only once it's kept at 100C for ~30 minutes...

Sounds like it may be GBL. I'd recommend converting it to NaGHB via baking soda, boiling off the water... and seeing if it tastes right. If you notice nasty bitter chemicals, or off-colors, anything of the sort... be extra careful with it. I'm not even really recommending you ingest processed glue remover even... at least, not without a distillation.