Don't get distracted:The main thing about P2P meth is that there's so much of it

[RhinoJackson]

https://dynomight.net/p2p-meth/
Found this on hackernews today and thought it was worth posting.
Any thoughts or opinions on the article?
Similar to the atlantic article atara posted.

Takeaways
What to make of all this?

First, I think it’s unlikely that l-meth is causing people to go crazy. Modern P2P meth is nearly pure d-meth, and the percentage of l-meth peaked before 2011, before these reports of schizophrenia.

Second, the evidence we have is against the idea of contaminants in P2P meth. Almost all meth was produced using P2P since 2012, before most reports of schizophrenia. And P2P meth synthesis has changed several times in the interim, resulting in higher purity than ever before.

Third, the major impact of P2P synthesis is that a lot more meth is available. We have many sources of evidence for this: Border seizures, sewage measurements, usage surveys, prices, and overdose data. All these indicate that people are using historically large amounts.

Does this rule out the idea of contaminants? No. Even if it’s 97% pure d-meth, there could be something very nasty lurking in that last 3%. But I don’t see the need for such an explanation. We know there are many more heavy users, so there’s no need to go beyond the idea that quantity has a quality all its own.

[carl]

One word: "hotrailing"

ketosis posted a video after my absolute lack of getting what this is and what its supposed to do.
But it involves imbibing(can't say it else) meth under stupid conditions and actually, I have more questions than ever about this.
I am still utterly confused, but I just don't try to understand this anymore.
Its like groundhog day - american stuff nobody elsewhere understands
"hotrailing".... smh rn

As I said in the other thread, and was apparently disproven
Those people who are "hotrailing" and engage in other wasteful public drug using stunts(because, what else is this than hotboxing for meth users?), could be called "regular" users as in, regularly repeating use.
But not as in functional users who just try to keep on doing whatever, with responsibility, without the intent of getting as much fun out of it as possible.

I don't think there is any ceiling effect in such intentional purely recreational abuse, those people might stop when they hallucinate very strongly or whatever.
But else, they are trying to get as high as possible, thats why a probably not that small number of people ended up with that drug even.

I know its the case quite often, with the myth it being the "worst" and at the same time "strongest" drug, idiots tend to end up there, or at crack/street heroin.
Thats what being edgy causes in real life.
Cringe, bro!

[thewire]

Not bad.

My notes:
-P2P meth is racemic mixture. Cartels has no skill how to make pure d-meth from p2p. Hopefully they will never have a capability to
achieve that . Not mentioned in the article if it has been attempted.
-97% ain't bad ,if they were pro that would be 99+.
- " Even if it’s 97% pure d-meth, there could be something very nasty lurking in that last 3%" Totally agree with that. I am sure this causing that mystical "go crazy" effect.

Off: I never liked  Trump  but I agree what he  planned  , to designate Mexican drug cartels as te++o+ists.

 

[carl]

-P2P meth is racemic mixture. Cartels has no skill how to make pure d-meth from p2p. Hopefully they will never have a capability to
achieve that . Not mentioned in the article if it has been attempted.

They have that, and they do that, for quite some time even.

Check the chiral composition of seized meth, its enantiomerically enriched, the least effort with the greatest results.
Those are huge shards, but only around 70-75% dextromethamphetamine.
Because that separation step, fractional crystallisation apparently, is done just once.
As once is enough to get the required looks.
Twice increases the workload and thus price by a huge margin, and it simply is not neccessary-

But believe me, they could make pure dextro.
They just don't need t.
Because this is apparently good enough, for the looks, and if not, then price and effect will convince any customer besides this.
They only do the bare minimum regarding chirality.
And if they can do that, then there are also people who could take this one step further(or 2-3 actually ), the knowledge is obviously there.

[java]

"Cartels has no skill how to make pure d-meth from p2p"......they've known how to do that for at least 15 years...and later,..... since they wanted  to maximise the profit , they just mixed 60 % d-meth and the rest L-meth to get those shards that all the users wanted.........java

[RhinoJackson]

There are plenty of "normal" people that do meth and every other drug.  We only hear about the crazy stories that get shoved in our face via the news. I totally get that.

There is a larger cultural/social reason that creates addicts.
Without fixing that we are only going to hear more crazy stories as availability and potency of drugs increase.

I feel like money=happines, buy more stuff=happines, corporate/government intrests shoved in our face affecting how we percieve and live meaningful lives.
Life is about being sad, happy, and every other emotion. Truly expierence all of lifes emotions. It's ok.

[Flashtrax]

not an expert but last time I take a few gr of this so called "mexican meth" and after even a week I have terrible side effects and sad behaviour ... I mean even after years and years of AMP abuse I never heard conversations of people on my loudspeakers!!!
I think if american people had the choice they certainly take AMP rather than this over buzzing meth even if at the beginning of the day you think you have find your road or have a second life offering to you.. Im also suspicious about the effects that this productions give to human bodys when experiment after even a few dayzzz!!!

and it terms of stimulation AMP is already more than enough to make the job done... just to be said

[DerAlteSack]

The discussion WHAT in the meth is causing people going nuts is fruitless as in the end the drug has not changed so much since the times of biker speed (razemic meth). There was always a small percentage who could not handle it (mostly with underlying latent psychosis) and the went pop and the drug was blamed. Wrongly in my opinion.

True is that use has become more widespread not at last following the old PR wisdom: There is no such thing like bad publicity, every grave warning gets 10 times more people interested then it deters.

All this comes into play but there is something else: Meth is as we know a very strong drug and combinations with other drugs often have typical negative effects, like Meth + pot (lots of it and dtrong) = open paranoia, loss of contact with reality and mental capacity. Meth + Opiates in special Heroin but substitutes like codein or methadon are far worse (polish soup IS the worst) = open paranoia of a special evil and erasive kind and a touch of meanness. Meth + Benzos = total assholification, narcissm paranoia unrelieability.
Thats those I have encountered more often and which have a clear pattern. It is understood this happens not when combining the drugs once but after some time of permanent use.

Therefor I offer a wager and bet that in at least 92% of the new cases of insanity not only meth is consumed often but the meth is usually combined with something else and without this combo not much would happen. What is combined whats bad? In short, strong upper + medium/strong downer = shit happens. At the moment there is a high availability of highly cut meth (sorry Java I don't buy that there is much pure stuff coming from Mexico, N-Iso is the main ingredient of the concoction, obviously , the stuff even looks 100% N-ISO, better, consumers today believe that good meth must look like this. Same as now certain looks in Coke are told to be a sign of highest quality coke whilst in truth being a sign of a good amount of horse-dewormer which by adding some duration to the cokes short effects is probably a real improvement, same as the 50% amphetamine in the coke sold in Berlin was an improvement and consumers did not accept pure coke anymore calling it impure and substandard.
Anyways  I bet virtually all those going nuts have consumed other strong and long acting drugs, say downers and mostly RC benzos like Etilozam and there is the reason for what is happening.


And so it is still true what was told to me when I smoked my first joint at the end of the 70s:
Never ever mix downers and uppers, everybody who does so ends up in the psychiatric hospital, some sooner some later, but in the end all without exception.


Isn´t the worlds just a big hamsterwheel ?

[Flashtrax]

  :)I agree, because unfortunately I think that if the wheel were to really turn, then it would only be for hamsters

[NeonCortex]

Surely there must be some credible analyses out there?

[jacolives]

There are!  The DEA regularly reports on this type of things.  You’ll notice they refer often to “purity” AND “potency”.  Purity has been in the high 90s for years, “potency” has moved around a bit but I think the most recent report I read had it well over 60 - 70 maybe on the 80s.  This is based on seized samples of course, due to the fact that they regularly seize even very LARGE samples - in the hundreds of kilos, these are probably very accurate numbers.  There is of course always the chance that if your meth is further from the border, that it is less pure for various reasons but I say only the chance.  Most likely it is in the same condition as it was when it was first smuggled across the border, or first taken out of solution very near where you live and are enjoying (or not) their fine product.

[arkoma]

The "hot-railers" tell themselves that they are still only "snorting lines" essentially. Nevermind that they might instantaneously vaporize a .25 tp .5 gm dose at once......

[jacolives]

The "hot-railers" tell themselves that they are still only "snorting lines" essentially. Nevermind that they might instantaneously vaporize a .25 tp .5 gm dose at once......

What do you think about the claim by many hot rail users that the vaporized methamphetamine actually also enters the blood through the nose and not just through the lungs ?  People have been saying these for years but I’m not sure it is true.

[timescale7017]

The article was a good read, nice thorough analysis.

"Even if it’s 97% pure d-meth, there could be something very nasty lurking in that last 3%"

Well, that's average. So it's entirely possible that the majority is 99+% methamphetamine but there is a small fraction on the market with significant impurities.

If it is an impurity it's certainly not mercury or lead, as those are chronic toxins and the reported effects seem acute.

[jacolives]

Well there is a very high impetus towards having the cleanest purest product.  The majority of meth in the USA is smoked.  Anyone that has smoked meth knows all it takes one speck of dust or some other random thing to make your dope turn brown, burn and that is the point that it goes from tasting like nothing to tasting awful and gagging you as you try to inhale.  There are so many different people manufacturing, smuggling and selling the stuff that nobody is going to buy fucked up product.  Let’s say you buy 10 lbs from some dude, and there is a funny taste, or some other problem with it - just call him up he will replace it.  Sometimes he might just give you 10 more and then not even ask for the other back .  This is no big deal, happens sometimes.  The price on Mexico of the stuff is so absurdly cheap most wouldn’t believe it if I posted it here!

[d00d]

Not that we have meth on our planet but; Ich don't think so.  Just no.  P2P meth? No.

Your a cartel lord; WHY WOULD YOU WORK UP TO P2P? Please tell us why. Why when you can call your sino-soviet cartels and get the proper enantiomer foodthings by the drum, by the drum, by the drum.

Hell they avoid P2P like the plague. Logic time, not to be a dick.  But its time to think logically.

[jacolives]

I’m not a cartel lord, but it’s just simple economics.  Cost of production vs. the local (in Mexico) cost to sell the finished product.  Also there is the law to consider.  The vast majority of precursor related chemicals are not illegal to ship out of China (though this is subject to change of course), and many are not illegal to ship into Mexico.

Take this for a grain of salt of course, I’m just some guy on the Internet!

Of course there is also the massive amount of forensic evidence that shows the VAST majority of seized meth in the United States (far from me in The North Pole, but I have the Internet) which is by a huge margin the number one destination for jale / hielo / metanfetamina is produced from phenylacetone AND is fairly enantiopure.

[arkoma]

possession of pseudoephedrine in mexico carries a term of 1-3 years....................

[jacolives]

possession of pseudoephedrine in mexico carries a term of 1-3 years....................

Was of course referring to P2P related chemicals.

[carl]

Your a cartel lord; WHY WOULD YOU WORK UP TO P2P? Please tell us why. Why when you can call your sino-soviet cartels and get the proper enantiomer foodthings by the drum, by the drum, by the drum.

Hell they avoid P2P like the plague. Logic time, not to be a dick.  But its time to think logically.

lol no.
The shipments of P2P precursors are much larger to mexico than the shipment of ephedrine related things nowadays.
Thats a fact, you can look up how much they seize of each(but it might take time, they use like a dozen of different precursors for P2P....).

Fuck d00d, you can even turn P2P chiral easily.
The yield might be low, but its chiral.
Racemization exists.
AIBN is on a watched list now because of this.
They fucking even reuse the levo, this obviously means!

Come on, this is not rocket chemistry.
They have capable chemists too nowadays.
Its much more lucrative and your family even receives protection/or alternatively threats if you don't want, etc.
Or somewhere in between, those are not barbarians either.
I would do it, living there.
Even if I would not use drugs.
Easy decision.

I wouldn't be surprised if they have a few luminaries among them who would even look down on most of us.