The Secret behind Potency of Meth

[geezmeister]

Geez joins Ware on the point, and to put it simply, there is no secret to the potentcy of meth. There has never been a secret about it. It has been posted since I first read a post about making meth, dissatisfied with the process I learned first hand from a decent cook.

Ware and Geez have both been at it long enough to have learned that pure ingredients and good reagents determine the final product. If you want the best meth, the most potent meth--and like Ware I agree that we are not speaking about buzz or shooting sparks or faces in the trees, voices in the wind, people outside the window, sore jaws from gritting your teeth, or black helicopters. We are taking about pure meth. It gets that good, it does not get better.

Long wet reflux, adding the slurried pseudo and red phos and mixing well, adding the I2 in small increments until it is absorbed with doing much more than just giving up a little heat, and when it has all settled down nicely and is a very wet fluid cool mass, bringing it up to heat slowly in an oil bath with a condenser running and letting it a go a day or so.

I know a number of other ways to do this reaction. I can tailor a cook for the taste of an individual and his method of administration. That is not what the thread is about. The thread is about potentcy, and potentcy and purity are the same thing.

Osmium has given this information to the blind and deaf among us, myself included, before. You have to want to learn to read and listen. He has said-- over and over-- the same thing, the same sequence, the same time, the same method. It is simple. Anyone can do it if you have the patience to do it the way the chemist said it ought to be done. And do it by the book.

Osmium, my thanks for putting up with us down here in Comedy Central. I know having to deal with us is like being a lawyer dealing with a 17 year old juvie dropout who is at the height of his lifelong intelligence and doesn't need some cracker in a blue suit and damn striped tie telling him shit....Sometimes you get through. You did this time. At least here. Thanks.


Patience pays. Boy, does it ever pay.
Mostly harmless

[wareami]

Apologies to all that may have been lost in the WAKE of my dust and pent UP frustrations!
Jacked is that mentor that I speak HIGHly of! If it weren't for his kindness and patience and expertise in this feild of clandestine chemistry, I don't think I could have lasted this long or learned so much!
Osmium's help in translating this information regarding the long reflux, from a scientific standpoint is greatly appreciated, although his manner of delivery and skills in public relation leave much to be desired! IMHO
He has an excellentrating post in this thread and I was offended by his closing remark! I saw it as a slap in the face toward the likes of Jacked and other elders that have worked hard at helping to build this database of knowledge!
But that's just me! I wish Osmium would readdress this thread to clear up any misunderstanding.
I knew instantly what Jacked was getting at when he replyed to this thread! Hence my following posts at trying to clear up any misunderstanding!
This inspired my next post in the sequence that stated, "Much thought must be given to how we word things if we are to show proper respect where it is due!" Hence the walking on eggshells statement.
I'm not perfect and my writing skills aren't the best. This might contribute to the added time it takes for me to throw these posts together! Something that might take the average individual 15 min to slap together, usually takes me 2 hours! And much of that time is spent pacing and thinking and trying to carefully choose my words that will convey what it is I want to say here! And much of the thought and consideration surrounds getting my point across in a non-offending way!
The variances in rxn methods being discussed here is such that it leaves room, for the applicator of these principals, to do what is necessary at obtaining their very best!
Those Old timers and elders that have been applying these principals to the varying degrees, for years, have made it a science and continue to refine. Their trade skills leave NO ROOM for anyone of us to step in and say "You're Doing it all wrong".
We can speculate all day long about the quality of what they produce! Unless you bioassay it first hand, you are stepping out of bounds when you claim it to be less than what they report it to bee!
The unheard of yields and quality that Ibee and Wingnutz stumbled upon, once reported, were the cause of many`a raised eyebrow...and the subsequent debates! Those that would rather argue their points of "Impossibility" and "skeptisism", held me back from further detailing these finding and procedures, because I was too busy trying to protect my credibility...nah fuck that...I was trying to establish some! But that was only because when I keep stumbling on areas that show promise, I need those that want to benefit to help investigate it further and help me out in these processes! Many here have helped and for that I am Grateful! And in other areas of research, I've demonstated that I am fully capable of carrying the ball myself, if that need arrises! Well that's all well and good, but when it comes down to it, Ibee is responsible and still stands behind every word! Most of what qualified me and my seat here, surrounded the teachings of Jacked's and Worlock's contributions! Their were many others that provided guidance in certain areas but the footwork was applied based on the groudwork that they layed before us all! All of you DO-Bees know how painstaking that necessary footwork is and you all demonstrate how much work was poured into with your contributions! It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that!
Had I followed Jacked's initial advice, I'd have focused mainly on plowing ahead and paying less attention to the "text in a box"
It was never my intent to offend anyone here by saying that if they didn't follow the longreflux method, their gear would be substandard!
I am however trying to dispell a myth that a fast cook will lead the seeker to the gold!
Ibee recalls Curby's original nano and it stated at the end that it wouldn't be the best, but it would get the newbees feet wet! Reading beteen the lines is a must and the better the reader is at intuition the better his chances of success!
One common mistake made when anyone attempts to enter a foriegn field of education, is trying to do eveything by the letter and to try and do it perfectly! All this does is leave the door to the necessary variations closed!
Ibee knows! He tried fifteen times and failed fifteen times initially! And he did everything as described and was still left erroneously wondering..."Ware'd I go wrong?"
Well first off...too many variables exist to follow things to the letter! And much is left to the interpretation of the reader! This will never change!!! Working on "reading between the lines" is essential here, especially when dealing with information that can have an adverse effect due to it's controversial context! This will help those when they reach the forks in the road of application decide the best varible to apply!

Unfortunately, Most here and especially the newbees do not know the THE SIGNS of completion!
It's also unfortunate that most take what they know on the road and make it a business without caring about "The End Result".
Jacked is one that fits in neither of the above two categories. Why? He's demonstrated in contributions here the steps taken in refining the HI/RP and shared his learning experiences freely! I have nothing but respect for that man as I'm sure that most here do as well!

Ballz:Okay...I have to admit...Wareami stepping out of character like that is enough to make most heads spin! I dug UP the Old Ware to help undecypher all that smooth-talk for those that grew accustom to the insanity commonly exhibited from this corner of the uni-vers-E-tile!
Ibee is simply advocating the need to get your precursors and feed as Pristeen Clean as possible!
•The E-Gull Works still on most formulations. The drymatrix is a bitch anyway ya look at it! Ibee avoids suggesting the drymatrix because of the added time and the tetra will not get all the inactives away from the p-fed!
Use whatever method of extraction works best for you!
The waterless A/B and the STR82B are good canidates as well!
A pre-tetra wash is recommended on every formulation regardless of the extraction method! It can only help and it doesn't hurt a bit! Some can even apply an acetone rinse as a final cleaning step!
It's very important to dry everything completely before proceeding onto the next steps in extraction.
•Clean and dry all precursors to the best of your ability!
Stomp dry your I2 from tinc! There will still be traces of contaminants and hcl attached to the crystals if still moist from a fresh extraction/sublimation.
Make sure the RP is powderdry and clean of all contaminants if using rerun RP! With MBRP, all glue must be washed out...it will interfere with the rxn! Run through a fine sieve strainer to powder! Surface area plays a big part! This will help ensure that the glue isn't present.
Paper has weight...adjust ratio if the scraping was sloppy and the RP has trace amounts of paper!
Use LabGrade if possible!
•A long wet reflux is recommended. The reduction process as we all know is time sensitive. The removal or oxidation of any side-rxns and by-products(impurities) will occur if given the proper time! Patience is the Key!
An Important note here: A fully converted product, brought to completion will reverse and convert back to p-fed! This happened to ibee on day six! So watch for the signs of completion and don't go beyond that!
After day six....it went to day 16 before a half-ass reconversion took place! The Kidz were not happy campers! But it was a necessary learning experience and experiment to help others avoid making that mistake!
Geez: Thank You for your continued support in making these newest discoveries available to all! And also for explaining things better that Ibee! He doesn't know what he'd do without ya!
Jacked: Your still the best man! Keep UP the good work!
Peace of the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE

Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt
ô¿ôWareami

[zibarium]

(just kidding, wareami!)

but what's up with this re-conversion to pseudo-eph after meth happens?

any other verifications of this phenomenae?

[ballzofsteel]

Thanks for the thorough explanation.
I hope you dont think I was doubting your words.Nah,just didnt get what youwhere saying is all.
I agree with what you say.
I feel I have played a part in the current trend swing toward the long reflux,mainly due to the many hours I prsonally have dedicated to the whole
"hydrogen Iodide "campaign.
Shit,I wish we spoke those two words more often,and stopped worrying about phosphorus and iodine and ratios and
time constraints,and cleanng pills.
For this is where the chemistry fundementals lie.
This is the reason I enjoyed 12345x`s threads so much.
Because he challenged these princables in a semi-covincing way.And that no-one was realy shure enough to shoot him down
straight up,like they have recently with royal-blue.
I am extremely chemistry illiterate,but foolowing my basic philosophies of life,I trust in laws which are so well grounded.


Anyho,Cheers for your thoughts and taking the time to express them in an easy-to-ballz-understanding way.


But as far as that reverse conversion thing is concerned,
I think you have some explaining to do???

I dont believe this for a second.

[koretexx]

Does one acquire pure isomer after a reflux in a acidic solution? HI is a strong acid is it not? It has been said in the past that a slight reflux of the aforementioned propylamines in a halogenic acid has resulted in a raceimization of the amine. Generally one would have to consider that a gentler reflux would be a little less harsh on the alpha carbon thus longer reaction times. Can't help but notice that people are still arguing whether the RP/I method produces a raceimic mix. Like einstein says it is all relative, possibly.

[Rhodium]

Regardless of what you are doing to a racemic mixture you will not transform it into a single optical isomer. The laws of chemistry unfortunately always strive towards racemates, and to separate the two, you have to more or less sort the molecules (by taking advantage of the different solubilities of the tartaric acid salt of the amines for example), you cannot force it to become enantiomerically pure.

Acid alone won't change the orientation of the alpha carbon of methamphetamine (a nickel catalyst would be needed for that), your product will always have the same orientation as your starting material. Acid can turn pseudoephedrine to a mixture of ephedrine or pseudoephedrine by scrambling the orientation of the OH group, but there is little use in doing that.

[Phlegm]

I'm really skeptical about these yield reports. Are you being honest, or just throwing in 20 or 30 percentage points because you're afraid you'll look like a dumbass otherwise?

Now Phlegm realizes he's not the best cook out there, but he's done about 150 of them and they work everytime. When he used to do 100-250g reactions with the 24hr reflux at 180F he would typically get a wt/wt yield return on the 1st pull of 65% when using good chemicals. 55% when using less than optimal chemicals. Once he did two identical  flasks side by side - one for 24hrs and the other for 50hrs. His yields were 55% and 62% respectively. SWIP has never really found a big yield increase beyond 16hrs.

Currently Phlegm favors a slow (about 2.5hrs) and  controlled climb to 250F and then refluxing at 250-260F for 3 to 4 hours to achieve the same yields I would get for the long refluxes described above. I realize that most hivers shit when any temp above 180F is mentioned, and scream about aziridines, but the quality of my high temp gear is at least as good as the low temp version. I believe also that at Rhodium's site is a paper indicating that the aziridines are converted to meth after 5hrs anyway.

SWIP doesn't have a patience problem or anything with doing the 24hr+ thing; just that in his hands, anyway, there's not much advantage to it.

[koretexx]

If memory serves right one impurity found in Rp/I dope is P2P.

Acid can turn pseudoephedrine to a mixture of ephedrine or pseudoephedrine by scrambling the orientation of the OH group, but there is little use in doing that.

Intriguining in itself is why indeed one isomer is highly hydrophobic and the other is hygroscopic. Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd and one may be able to play on these properties. One has to wonder if indeed the OH group is subtly donating a H+ to the amine group. It would account for the l eph activity as also the l methacathinone activity since in both cases the Oxygen has slightly more than a single bond between it and its carbon. That is if the hydroxyl shares a proton with the amine.

I do know that the tyramine molecule is quite zwitterionic with dry powder having high static moments. Many times the compound will not even come off the spatula without force.

The pKa is quite different between a benzylic hydroxyl and a phenolic hydroxyl this is apparent.

It is just too intriguing that the differences between two so similar materials can have such extremely different charechteristics.

[geezmeister]

Pleghm: The yield figures you describe are familiar. Most cooks start as low as forty percent yields and work up. Geez ran into "walls" at fifty percent, at sixty, at sixty seven...etc...Its not the synth and its not that refluxing doesn't increase yield. Low yield often relates to poor technique. The care and patience with which you extract the synthesized methamphetamine from the reaction fluid...or lack of it...can ruin an otherwise excellent yield.

You leave meth behind at every sloppy or hurried step in the extraction process. Slow down, be careful, give it time, do it right the first time. Improve your post reaction extraction technique and yield will improve. Simple things like not using coffee filters, drying solvents, using as few containers as you can get by with using, watching spills, giving things time to happen, and saving all the fluids in case of an oversight can make a lot of difference in yields.

The yield from the long reflux was just a bonus. The quality and cleanliness of the product was more important than the yield. When you get them both, you have to be doing something right.

No, the yields are not made up. They are real, and they are attainable. You just have to pay attention and keep an eye out for every yield stealer you can eliminate. 

[Phlegm]

Geezmeister, this response to your comments is probably a time waste cosidering that this thread is apparently dead or dying. But, what the fuck. Firstly, I put a lot of stock in your thoughts on any subject. As Phlegm sees it, your technical knowledge as well as your legal expertise makes you a major asset for the hive. Also, I don't mean any lack of respect towards you in any of my comments.

Phlegm has a practicle laboratory backgound from 15 years working as a technician in cell biology oriented research labs at major universities. Believe me, in order to do  this type of work one developes high degrees of patience and perseverence, as well as a set of skilled hands. Plus, you either have a knack for it, or you don't. What I'm saying is that I know how to do this shit well, and that's how I do do it. This is why I don't believe these people and their yield claims. I mean look, we all know that the maximum return attainable is 92% meth-Hcl from pseudoephedrine-Hcl. You then are going to suffer mechanical losses of at least 10%, which, right off the bat, puts your real world maximum attainable return somewhere around 83%. Then, subtract from that the fact that nobody ever has a reaction that goes to completion. Phlegm thinks that anyone believing that they are going to get a 75% return is being very optimistic!
I should also point out that my personal figures are calculated from the first pull only. Subsequent pulls and the acetone catch are not included. So, I probably do somewhat better than 55 - 65%.

But my original reply was evidently worded poorly because all this shit I just talked about wasn't intended to be my main fucking thrust! My main point was to ask why people do all these long, long incubations when the same results can be had in 5 or 6 hours? A 6 hour reaction means a reduction of prime "ain't no way you're gonna get ot of this shit mess if the Nazi SS pigs show up" exposure time of anywhere from 20 to 40 or more hours! Now, since a chemical Rx roughly doubles or even triples its rate for every 18 degree F temperature increase, it's not hard to see that 4 minutes at 250F might be the equivalent of 1 hour at 180F. As for the quality, I maintain that the high temp shit is at least as good as the 180F variety. Rhodium's site has a paper in which the aziridines were monitored during the reaction (FSI 76(1995)97-114). Early on aziridines were the major constituent of the mix, the peak being even larger than the as yet unreacted ephederine. This azirdine peak diminished as the reaction went on and completely disappeared after 5 hours of reflux. This makes me wonder if the formation of aziridines isn't a way overrated concern.

[Rhodium]

I mean look, we all know that the maximum return attainable is 92% meth-Hcl from pseudoephedrine-Hcl.

May I just interject a question here? Is it universally assumed that "yields" in this forum follows a separate standard than all the others, in that the weight yield is calculated rather than the molar yield?

So if someone here gets a molar yield of 80% when reducing Pseudoephedrine.HCl to Meth.HCl, that is a 0.80*0.92 => 73.6% Stimulants forum yield? And with the same 80% molar yield, but instead starting with Pseudoephedrine freebase and ending up with Meth freebase, the Stimulants forum yield will be 72.2% (as the maximum weight yield of meth freebase from pseudoephedrine freebase is 149.2/165.2 = 90.3%)?

Is this protocol always followed here, or does it change from time to time without the poster specifying which "kind" of yield was used? Myself, I never use anything else than molar yield, and I assume that there are others here never using anything else than weight yield, so to really know what people are talking about here, one would have to look up the user in a table to see what yield standards he is usually using (or to be on the safe side, hope that all the necessary data was included in the post, and then perform all the calculations myself?).

Oh well, at least we speak english everyone...  

[Osmium]

> Believe me, in order to do  this type of work one
> developes high degrees of patience and perseverence, as
> well as a set of skilled hands.

Strange, my first rP/I2 reduction worked fine the very first time, and the end product was snow white (since I did the A/B workup and actually understood it).
Don't make it more complicated than it really is. This reaction is a classical example for a very simple reaction. Every chemistry student has to perform more complicated ones after only two or three weeks into the practical org. chem. lab class.
Common sense applies, even though many people here don't like to hear that.

> nobody ever has a reaction that goes to completion

Why not?

> I should also point out that my personal figures are calculated from the first pull only.

Why do meth cooks always process every extraction separately? Can't wait five more minutes to do them all together? Yields certainly won't come close to the theoretical maximum with that kind of workup procedures!

> My main point was to ask why people do all these long, long
> incubations when the same results can be had in 5 or 6 hours?

Because many people have finally realised that the end result is NOT the same.

> it's not hard to see that 4 minutes at 250F might be the
> equivalent of 1 hour at 180F.

Guess why your grandma doesn't heat the apple pie for 2 mins at 500°C, or a whole afternoon at 80°C. Because that rule of thumb is a simplification which is helpful at guesstimating, but doesn't tell the whole story.
But I kinda agree, when I reflux something then it means heating to boiling, which happens to be around 125°C with strong HI.

[Phlegm]

Rhodium, I doubt that many people at the hive calculate their yields on a molar basis. That is why I did it on a weight basis.

Osmium, on the first issue I thought Geez was questioning my competency. My first HI/RP attempt worked very well also.

If you maintain that here is a difference between 180F dope and 260F dope, just exactly what is that difference?

Yes, you are correct about the reflux requiring a boil. My mistake. So, I assume you incubate your reactions at 180F for eons rather than refluxing?

[Phlegm]

Whoops, forgot a couple things, Os. I only count the first pull because I get the vast vast majority then. I could wait 5 miutes, but for me that doesn't make sense since if I let it sit around a few days I get more on second pulls than if I don't.

Tell me, do your rx's go to completion? Do you think most hivers' go to completion?

[zibarium]

swiz recently dreamt of a hotter temp; was shy previously to get past about 190F.

for an experiment, swiz let a 12gm (sudo) 8gm (mbrp) 15 gm( lgI2) go to 240 f 

took 3 hrs to get there; under slight pressure; stayed there for 6 more hours; let it coast back down

this was in 500 ml rb in oil bath

i mention the amt. of reactants, and the size flask beecause it surely must matter in terms of how long to reflux.

also, the above dream was carried out with less than 3 drops dh2o/gm sudo

yield and quality out of this world.


this was complete.

furtharmore, swiz dreamt of accidently taking the ph to one in the final part of a/b

not sure why the myth persists, but swiz claims again, that no harm will come of it.
(on the way to ph 6, swiz got hung up at ph8, after endless titrations...so decided to evap a bit of the aqueous layer at that ph...sure enough, meth was left in the dish; and very clean as it was. the only extra shit the excess hcl caused was excess hcl! piece of cake to remove beefore inhaling its vapours)

[wareami]

Everyone is missing the point when they keep derailing this thread back to a yield thing!
Ibee considers himself to bee the King Of Spacedope, mainly because that was ware his dope dropped him off, in the early daze of learning to cook. His school of thought was fashioned after that which was learned at the time. Fast violent reactions and when things slowed, he'd burn the crust on the apple pie, for good measure. Ibee is also highly sensitive to blackhelicoptors, branchpeeple, and other peripheral stalkers. This type dope brought him to dangerously close to the doorsteps of the asyllum on more than one occassion! Some may argue, sleep deprivation or "you did too much". Well Ibee always does too much and usually in the amount that will last between 18-24 hours! It can't be blamed on sleep deprivation when 30 minutes into the buzz, the neighbors come home to find poor Ibee lying face down on his lawn waiting for them to take him away. Those, my friend, are the dreams that nightmares are of! And the characters in those nightmares all sport giant butterfly nets! Ask Dwarfer about Ibee's nervegas incident . The truth be known...Those are impurities and it's pointless to argue with an expert! Geez helped to confirm the reasons why those early days went the way they did! ShootingStar Peripheral Vision and other audio visual hallucinations. That's Getting Fryed, not getting high! High cooking temps were the cause and Ibee can duplicate that dope anytime. Just as he duplicates the Dope that he consumes without incident! Some bees can handle that spacedope, just as Geez pointed out, "He can tailor the cook to the users preference! Some bees think that's the Shite and associate that teeth clenching, adrenalin pumping, "their out to get me dope", as beeing topnotch gear! Fuck...the bodyaches and musclecramping and sore jaws oughta tell bees something ain't right! Ibee regularly enjoys getting blasted without all those side-effects today and has now for the better part of a year! What's different now? Cooking to completion with TIME not HEAT! Ibee can yank two identical looking apple pies outta the oven...One that's completely cooked throughout and one that's raw in the middle. All with heat! The raw one that looks done is made to look done in 15minutes. The one that's completely cooked takes an hour at lower temp! If Ibee were to let the raw one cook at the same temp for the time necessary to cook the insides completely, He have Burnt pie and that's just what he is when ingesting BURNT Dope. Fryed to a frazzle!
Rizzle-me-dizzle?
Impurities need room to be cooked off, slowly, deliberately. It takes time to create them based on the concentration of HI present. Those side reations also need time to reach an equilibrium and be recycled back out!
What most think is complete reduction, isn't complete until those sides are dealt with by allowing them to cook off! This is the challenge that is being presented. Ibee knows it...Geez, Os, and Rhodium know it. And the HighYield factor that has nothing to do with this thread...? That's the bonus you'll receive in the end for your patience and the ability to follow good, orderly, direction! And that's word UP!
As for the reconversion, cook steady until day seven and work it up if what ole ware says seems far fetched! Ibee sacrificed two 3g rxns to this scenario already. The first happened by accident because it wasn't tended to in time. The second was deliberately sacrificed as a confirmation tool. Half ass dope(trashed after a single bio) resulted from both batches but only after day 16. Samples were taken at various stages as the amount of meth increased and the reactants were replenished after each sample to keep it in reflux! Never again will Ibee need to take that route!
Zib: As Ibee stated previously, he'll never question the quality of any seasoned cook's product until he's bioassayed first hand. Ibee merely wanted to share his experiences with HighCookingTemps and SpaceDope to give bees a guidepost to judge by.
Peaceof the REaction
Have FUN-Bee SAFE

[ballzofsteel]

Doesnt it have everything to do with yield ,if we are concidering the amount of methamphetamine vs side reaction/by-products,which is the same as determining purity?
I dont think anyone is realy talking about the yield per weight of recovered white crystals,to which may encompass many various substances(nasty byproducts),but rather the % and therefore the yeild by weight of the desired product e.g meth.
Like if I had recovered 100 crystals,and 10 of them are meth my yeild is 10 meth crystals,so purity is 10%,assuming all crystals are of the same size/weight.
I believe you cannot separate yeild and purity,as the determining factors in both crude yield of recovered product,and the percentage of meth contained within this crude yield are one in the same.


Long reflux has been run many a time.Have never seen this "reversal" phenom` ,but then again never let it go for 7 days.Why is this a seven day event?
This "space dope"you speak of.Do you think the meth is different,or the level of impurities has increased due to
higher temps?(counting on the right answer)Yup I reckon so.

No offence Ware,but you still confuse me in this thread.
I dont know who you are having a go at when you correlate(in such a forceful tone)your preachings with those of Osmiums.
At the short cooker(not a hight issue) is all I can grasp,but from your latest posts,I feel I must have missed some encrypted magic incantation within this thread,that only the four of you,namely rhod,os geez,and ware have been able to gleen.Or are you just saying cook longer and gentler
with clean precursor`s,for optimal results?

ballz

[Worlock]

Calculations indicated that only 30% of the E should have turned, at equilibrium this was based om electrical potentials .

Then when you take into account that, the second step of this (SN2) reaction is irreversable, that blows any hope of a simple equilibriun out of the water, the reaction is driven further towards completion .

Now my Granny was absent minded.
She baked a pie for          48 hours  at 117 C.
She has also baked one  for 1 hour   at 220 C.


The difference, one was a little dry, the other a little burnt.
Scrape off the dry and burnt spots, and they tasted the same.

And it is badly misnamed as "the cold reaction"

Reflux it fot seven days?
the bag momma won't be very happy about that.
But who cares,
If it is better, as claimed by these honorable bees,
she won't bitch any more than all the time ,anyway.
If it is about the same , I'll get rid of her.
Either way I win.

[zibarium]

swiz's dream tale is not meant to refute; rather it was told as a piece of good news; from one who has always beelieved in the slow, wet, and boring way.

swiz is also one who can tell the difference between:
salt
p-fed
lye
iodometh and 


the real thing

wareami?  is it possible, after a very careful work-up (post rxn np washes x 3; np w/fb washes w/dh20 x 3; slow evap of final liquor; slight dry cold 'tone wash of that; followed by several slow re-crystalizations and washes) that the end 'glass', which vapourizes without a smudge or any flavor; gives a great buzz without jaw grinding, etc...that this product is somehow tainted with something that cannot bee recognized by any analysis? (short of serious lab analyses)

zib adds that his 9 hr dream went very slow; no violence; just slow, gradual bubbling; absolutely no signs of pushing or pulling; no swirling white smoke at any point in the dream; and eventually, a totally 'flat' pool of non-reacting fluid.

is it possible that the slight back pressure provided by a balloon cap, allowed the higher temp to act without damaging anything?

i don't know.

but, after minning the washes, swiz found an incredible 10 gms primo go-go out of his 12 gms precursor.

this statement, i will not defend.

i offer it up as a piece of good news.
swiz is too busy beeing a sex god to have any intrest in beeing a meth god...so he is fine with this beeing ignored; as he's fine with his other tid-bits beeing ignored.

if any one is intersted, swiz would even describe his break-thru pill cleaning method...which frankly, kicks all the others to hell at this point.

[ballzofsteel]

C`mon Zib,dont tease.Out with it you god of sex you.
Does this clean up make your meth more potent or what?