Author Topic: The Secret behind Potency of Meth  (Read 34430 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.


  • Guest
me too
« Reply #80 on: December 13, 2002, 11:15:00 AM »
jacked I hear you ' seems it's getting longer and longer with no end in sight.

personally I miss the two hours cooks and would like to see them again .. don't know why that' not possible ' I mean the gear is cleaner then when i did the 2 hrs wammm bammmmmms

and like you said top notch stuff......

right now Im just keeping a open mind learning as I go kind of thing.

then a discission will bee made to stay with short or longer cooks...
rigth now it's shorter cooks  work as well just depends  of your method of cooking i guess... but it's a learning thing ' trying to ways '' like teaching an old dog new tricks....    

  " tell me facts not bullshit.   "  


  • Guest
Oh yeah!!!
« Reply #81 on: December 13, 2002, 11:23:00 AM »
Ok old man you're challenge is taken up, I'll try the fruits of your labour...repeatedly if need be and by various methods of intake and in amounts that remain unwritten for fear of hive concern over Heme beginning to develop a little meth habit hehe.(plus I don't want to horrify anyone that invents the propaganda about meth that might be reading with a scary real fact that's worse than anything they ever made up)
Bring it on caveboy. muhaahahahah

Just for the record;
Heme restates that his input in this thread still differs from many in that an element of the high I have noted many times in the past from long refluxes in HI is always lacking in gear from every other method, and Heme knows this is not an issue of purity or imagination etc, but rxn specific. Which of course could be an issue of purity specific to one reaction type I spose, but that would then indicate a desirable impurity once more, oh boy. In closing may the record note that Heme has come full circle again and now has empirical evidence to validate his uncertainty.
Actually you know what I reckon......I reckon the relfux rxn under certain conditions produces racemic meth...Simple as that.

Regards, Hematite.


  • Guest
On babysitting reactions
« Reply #82 on: December 13, 2002, 08:17:00 PM »
Jacked: A properly established reflux needs no babysitter.

The comment does in fact assume proper equipment and facilities. And no, I wouldn't leave one on the kitchen stove unattended either.  

Mostly harmless


  • Guest
as long as we're confused:
« Reply #83 on: December 13, 2002, 09:16:00 PM »
hematite, you rascal...i'm pretty sure i know what you're talkin' about. the weird thing is, i could bee exactly wrong!
so i must ask you annoying questions:

this particular quality bees hint at; with you dropping a big hint in the" HI, long reflux only " and not other it heme's experience that the particular 'magic quality' stuff has empirical aspects; like, in a double blind test, all tweek fans would choose this one over the others? Like, its a repeatable, sort of predictable high?

here's where i got confused with your poetry:
the racemic statement.  zib is starting to suspct that most people may actually prefer a mix. he has run a couple double blinds with friends, unbeknownst to them; they preferred the non-recrystalized gear..that was my first shock.
heme? are you suggesting that the long HI reflux gives an oportunity to racemeic meth, and that we always liked it better? but simply didn't know?

i hope this is my last theory on the subject:

could it bee? that in a vry long reflux, long after its done reducing iodoeph, that miniscule amounts of novel pea's are produced? active in microgram doses? so tiny that they will recrystalize with the big boys; unnoticeable; yet a very strong drug in its own right?

or a certain combination of by-products could bee produced in the long haul...nothing we were after...

on the more sorcery-ish side, i'd guess that the super long cook allows one the time to put one's focus into the power object for a longer time; thus imbueing the object with more power.

jacked quite possibly has enough power to imbue an object with 'magic' in 2 hours.

zib is cool with that possibility. was it curbshot, or fudgemonkey, that were able to do it in 20 mins?

i beelive them.        some can move chemicals with their minds.   zib can move blood to his penis with his mind.


  • Guest
« Reply #84 on: December 13, 2002, 10:07:00 PM »
clean gear ' and no how will allow you a quicker rxn.
thats how SWIHFT learned a few years ago when ALL HE had to work with was a whistler tea pot a hotplate some 3/4 in hose and some fittings from the plumbing supply store and start cooking..

He knows it can bee done ' and is working it back in his way of doing things ' it's quick and it's good.... bottom line
he's ok with the long reflux ' just time is the factor and he likes in and out much better then 36 hrs waiting for something that can bee made in 2 or less hrs .

but he's from the old school of doing things and has a hard time understanding why the long wait for a little if any difference in end results. 

  " tell me facts not bullshit.   "  


  • Guest
under pressure = higher temp=faster motion
« Reply #85 on: December 13, 2002, 10:52:00 PM »
equals quicker journey to encounter the desired molecular encounters and exchanges.
also allows higher concentration of HI as liquid.
could also supply the stinklessness.

what if one of those volcanoe-type rxns , instead of coating a bee's ceiling, was forced thru a tiny coil of glasstubing, by the pressure of the rxn gasses?  is there any real point in reacting a large volume of ingrediants? other than convention? and the troubling, sticky surface area of the containment device?

might a tiny bubble in a novel mixture of innert, non-miscable medium suffice as a temporary flask?
might a steady flow of such bubbles in the mix bee circulated thru a narrow, heated artery? with intake manifolds along the way? blowing in an atomized poof of porportioned precursors?

i didn't think so.

but don't bee too surprised if thoughts out of the box create the box of the future!


  • Guest
damn zib '' try it and let me know; high temp ' ...
« Reply #86 on: December 13, 2002, 11:26:00 PM »
damn zib '' try it and let me know;

high temp ' pressure 'and a close eye for what's taken place can make things happ[en quick....

it's all written in the meth gods bible check for yourself.     ;)

  " tell me facts not bullshit.   "  


  • Guest
Pressure vs Time= NervousBrakeDown :•þ
« Reply #87 on: December 14, 2002, 12:23:00 AM »
Jacked: It's great to see thoughts from the old school on this subject! We all know that Cleanliness is next to MethGodliness. This was the first lesson taught to Ibeeware by the LightningGod! Pristeen clean topped the priority list of achievment. From that starting point, a launch pad was formed for further exploration! SWIW didn't have much of a mind for absorbing and retaining most of the advanced Chemistry jargon that gets tossed onto the board, which is why it became necessary to grasp "The MagicChant".
It seems, the more Ibee Chanted, the more enlightened he became toward the virtues of "Patience".
The more patience applied, the more determined Ibee became in understanding a fraction of what the Schooled Elders(chemists) were teaching.
Granted, some of the experimentation in the long reflux area was accidentally stumbled upon!
That launched the inquisition of discovering why this produced a different creature altogether.
Let's not forget...Ibee has been a conniseur since "74".
He was also one that would turn his nose up to White USP in favor of the oldschool P2P EtherRush!
All that changed over the years with the discovery that a half ass homerun rxn with all the impurities was equal to and sometimes better than some trash he's consumed on the streetlevel!
Rhodiums scientific explanations concerning longer cooking times and how this effects the conversion/reduction properties in the HI environment, set the stage for further exploration!
Somehow...I always found it hard to argue with science!
There is without a doubt more time in preparation involved! The trade off in time is worth every second upon first sampling the end result!
Ibee honestly didn't think it was possible to achieve more potency and scoffed at the thought at first until the accidental experiment fell in his lap! This coincided with what he read so for the last several months this has been duplicated over and over!
Once stumbled upon, it's hard to go back!
Peace of the REaction


Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt


  • Guest
It's like this
« Reply #88 on: December 14, 2002, 03:24:00 PM »
Swim is not a scientists, He's a criminal doing high stake crimes against a nation working together to stop him.
He weighs his age against time if discovered and comes up with no scenario to his favor. The more time spent at ground 0 puts him that much more in jeopardy. This is just my reasoning in the mater. This is not the way it started for swim, It was small and personal and there was room for research and discovery along with long hours in the lab. It's went from a hobbie to a serious streamlined business.
 As far as leaving a rxn to go on its on I do it all the time, The push pull pushes and pulls without my watching it anymore, that time is spent getting ready for the final extraction and cleaning up the pill drill, so time is money in most cases, I believe in Swims case Time is Time and the less is better.. People learning to cook for profit should think about this, I'm just trying to enlighten the reality to some wearing blinders through the learning process as Swim did only focussing on a product and not staying out of jail. Someone get this thread back on topic please.   

The end result is directly connected to the effort applied


  • Guest
> He was also one that would turn his nose up ...
« Reply #89 on: December 14, 2002, 04:54:00 PM »
> He was also one that would turn his nose up to White USP
> in favor of the oldschool P2P EtherRush!

Nice example of how 'street users' judge the quality of their 'gear'. Do I get a bodily reaction from the toxic byproducts and other foreign matter like solvent residues? Is the dope coloured like the impure shit I did back in 89, when I still had a tolerance and a gram of peanut butter would last me a week? Is it 'crystal' meth or is it dust-like powder?

Just to remind some people here: the chemical substance 100% meth hydrochloride is a colourless (not 'white!'), odorless crystalline substance with a shitty taste. It doesn't matter how big the crystal 'rocks' are, the finest dust can still be many times purer than the biggest glassy chunks you've ever seen. Crystal size is unimportant and not an indication of quality either.
If your drug differs from this description in any way then it cannot be clean 100% pure meth. Period.

I assume I also know why some people see no difference between their short reactions and the long ones. Because they start the reaction like they are used to do it, by mixing pfed, I2 and rP with a few drops of water wrongly believing that they need to see that irrelevant exothermic push-pull, phase I or II or whatever stuff.
There is a paper on Rhodium's site mentioning 50 or so contaminants in meth produced that way. Which proves what every chemist always knew, that this way of doing it might yield a product that is highly desireable for the average street user, but it's not clean methamphetamine hydrochloride. Same with those that omit the A/B cleanup: your stuff might get off everyone, but those people are not getting off on the meth alone, but on all the other crap that is in there too. Somewhat like those paint huffers that like to ruin their bodies by inhaling toxic solvents.

Whenever I get involved into the discussions on this board my intent is the furthering of knowledge and scientific understanding among the members. That's why I say stuff like above and the following, not to step on anybodys toes:

A successful rP/I2/H2O/long reflux reaction, done with the intent of producing as clean as possible methamphetamine hydrochloride and not the 'gear' or 'chili' called mixture of uncountable substances that can be sold easily and pleases every superstitious moron does NOT depend on the visible signs of 'getting off' like flask fires, vigorous gas production, HI oozing out of plastic bottles etc. I have done such long refluxes myself, e.g. by dissolving the pfed in the required amount of H2O, adding a small amount of the I2 followed by all the rP. No visible reaction. Then I added more I2 through the condenser, and the flask heated up, still no push/pull like behavior and violent exotherms, just gentle self-heating. When finally all the I2 was in after 1 hour or so, and no heat was produced anymore the whole stuff was gradually heated to reflux and left alone for the next 18 hours or so, before being worked up producing a odorless, non-sticky, colourless fine dustlike powder that most morons wouldn't buy if I offered them my 'good shit'.

Sure, you can do it the violent exothermic dry way and end up with a complex mixture of all kinds of stuff containing a considerable amount of meth, and that stuff will probably sell for good money and is fast to complete, especially when people leave out the long ass reflux and the A/B cleanup.

You can shorten the whole reflux business to 2 hours or so, ending up with a mixture containing 75% meth and the rest impurities and unconverted precursor. It might even look the same after workup and cleaning as the real pure chemical methamphetamine hydrochloride, and most people won't be able to tell it apart, because humans can't tell the difference without using tools, just like we can't measure lenghts and distances and other measurements exactly by merely using our senses.

That's why the 2 hour reflux product is still 'gear', 'good shit', 'rocket fuel' or whatever the current name is in your neighborhood. Converting the bulk of the precursor is fast, the conversion of precursor per time ratio (a.k.a. reaction rate) is very fast in the beginning but quickly slows down. People might have a conversion of 40% after one hour, 60% after two, about 75% after 3 etc. But to convert all the precursor into methamphetamine you have to cook for quite some time longer, since the reaction rate is NOT linear!

I can only speak for myself, but when I do such a reaction I want to do it right, convert all my expensive precursors into the desired product and end up with a pure compound with the least amount of contamination possible. Sure, there are easier ways to produce a marketable compound, but that's just not the way I like my drugs.
So do whatever floats your boat. If you can live with the knowledge of not doing your best and consuming impure stuff, fine.
I can't, and won't.

I'm not fat just horizontally disproportionate.


  • Guest
Well Said OS
« Reply #90 on: December 14, 2002, 06:27:00 PM »
Jacked: Seeing "It" for the way it is, is most understandable! It's an honor to have the "CaveMan Chronicles" from days of old available, when the descriptions were recorded more from an analytical, exploratory standpoint, then the business aspect of the field!
There wouldn't be to much of a shift in attitude for Ibee and the Kidz to cross that line, but his haphazard footprints while stumbling around are still noticable and he will remain a small fish and in the process do some refinery work!
After all...there is only Ibee and The Kidz to feed and above that would be no win proposition for them!
Time=$$$ there is no mistake!!!
Ibee would love to make the whole state happy, hell for that matter, The whole EastCoast...but the only way he'll devote his time toward giving back, is by staying safe and working on new developements!
Had the Caveman and others not made this an early priority, it's unlikely we'd have progressed this far!
So consider all the work done on Ibee's end as carrying the torch and pioneering against the opposition!
Most know that validity and credibilty emminate from this if and when time can be set aside for personal business...the head stash is worth the effort!
Os: Very well put! The first clear crystals were thought to be bogus imposters...because after all, the good stuff was white, right!!! WRONG!!!
Ibee sees clearly through his evap plate and that confirms his degree of doneness....
We don't need no stinkin machines!
Os also deserves credit in this area of explaining the long reflux and what takes place with a complete reduction!
This post

Post 381097 (missing)

(wareami: "iodo...", Stimulants)
explains what will be had when you GO after what you want!

Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt


  • Guest
« Reply #91 on: December 16, 2002, 06:34:00 AM »
thank you wareami, you said all that without disrespect or assuming things... I think there is a thread were cigarette smoke has about 20 or so contaminates that in concentration would kill you. The DEA says my shit is some of the most potent shit they have ran across in this area. I take the FBI's lab work over anyones here, after all theres are the one they hang you by.. No hard feelings to anyone in this thread after all it's just text in a box, nothing to live or die about.

The end result is directly connected to the effort applied


  • Guest
Burning Bridges and Foot Stomping!
« Reply #92 on: December 16, 2002, 07:22:00 AM »
Jacked: It's hard enough when describing the pioneering of any new way without stepping on a toe or two, especially the Toes of the teacher that laid the groundwork. Others may choose their words less wisely!
Ibee gives more thought to this than it would appear at first glance!
This subject is the stuff that thin ice and eggshells is made of!
Therefore there is a thin line that exists!
The refinement will continue, but as a tribute to the elders that laid the initial footwork. Not out of disrespect!
After all...the mindset was instilled by the preaching of one single word "Patience"! And from there, the torch gets passed down to others as "Stop Settling for Less".
It was known when that word Patience was taught to the Kidz, that the Ancient Alchemist Deluxe would never settle for less!
Ibee would never question the potency of Jacked's best as his techniques have been refined and revealed on more than one occassion!
Here's hoping the FBI don't get a load of Ibee's Shit!!!
Much Respect Man!
Peace of the REaction

Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt


  • Guest
the only thing resulting ....
« Reply #93 on: December 22, 2002, 05:02:00 PM »
the only thing resulting from 72 hr cooks
is yeilds man yeilds.

if you have an a/b routeen that yeilds pure white shards
the only reason to boil in 57% acid "no darkness at all"
for 72 hrs is 90% comeback.
thats the only reason the old timers did it.

these days people are much younger
they realy are......

and the young are impatint......

and motels are good only till the maid
wants to come in and service the room.

its checkout time man.

there aint no iodioephed in your shit.
hell you cant even get it off the walls of the flask.

and if theres so much as 1 part in 20 of phudo
in your shit youll now it as soon as you inhale.
eyes closed.......

if you can improve your shit with acetone washes,
or alcohol/acetone recristalazation.
you dont have your methiod down.

or you have very poor reagents "Rp,E,I"
to begin with.

did you know if you take a dremal with the little
cut off wheel.attached....
and while holding the wheel around 10 degs from paralell
to the striker surface.
you can with one sweep remove the rp leaving the paper
smooth almost like it never had any rp on it.
just do it over a coffie can.
to catch the rp.

realy one swipe takes no more then 1 sec.
and you can prossess a whole box in less then 5 mins

and the lack of paper ,etc  in the rp in the can.
and even more the speed and compleatness
at which the rp comes off the paper dry!
is realy amazing.

and for some strange reason the rp never catches on fire

but the trick is holding the wheel as flat as posable
to the surface of the matchbook.
just like sharping a knife blade with those things
works way better if the wheel is almost parrall to the face of the blade.


  • Guest
Re: if you can improve your shit with acetone ...
« Reply #94 on: December 22, 2002, 06:23:00 PM »

if you can improve your shit with acetone washes,
or alcohol/acetone recristalazation.
you dont have your methiod down.

swims method will never be "down"
there is always a better way
but doesn't see why all the 'gods'
would ever leave things these things out
despite there perfect reagents
and their massive skills

Iä-R'lyeh! Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä Iä!


  • Guest
agree and disagree w/1234
« Reply #95 on: December 23, 2002, 01:23:00 AM »
w/ the yield issue...mostly i agree. a good recovery act will come up w/ the best, sans the crap...and it seems pretty obvious when it is encountered.  if its meth, no one will ask how it was produced.

but the grinding wheel mbrp thing is ten times slower than other methods.
(biz posted on grinding wheel; quite excited, couple years ago. )


  • Guest
90% returns?
« Reply #96 on: December 23, 2002, 01:42:00 AM »
In Re:

"the only reason to boil in 57% acid "no darkness at all" for 72 hrs is 90% comeback."

No disrespect to you knowledgeable 12345x but 90% returns?

Someone was explaining it to me recently (concerning the varying molar weight between pseudo and meth.)
I think it was Geezmeister.

Anyway, isn't 82+% the maximum yield conceivable in terms of complete conversion and return?

Swis has hit 80% returns with a 12 hr dream. 70-75% on the 1st pull and the remainder by allowing the A/B container to sit for a week.

If I'm wrong my apologies...


  • Guest
« Reply #97 on: December 23, 2002, 02:34:00 AM »

Someone was explaining it to me recently (concerning the varying molar weight between pseudo and meth.)
I think it was Geezmeister.

Anyway, isn't 82+% the maximum yield conceivable in terms of complete conversion and return?

It's more like 90.31716%, weight/weight, if the mol/mol yield is 100%.  

Pseudo/ephedrine MW FB = 165.2346

Methamphetamine MW FB = 149.2352

The difference in the two would be 15.9994, which, not by coincidence, happens to be the atomic weight of oxygen(though in real life you would find oxygen in a diatomic form (abbreviated O2 ); this is a good way to remember these diatomic molecules: BrINCl HOF (pronounced "Brinkle hof")). 

Oxygen is removed from the pseudo/ephedrine (what chemists call a reduction) via HI, which forms the products of methamphetamine, I2, and water (this take two pseduo -> meth reductions, to get the two oxygens needed in H2O). 

The iodine, in turn, cycles back into HI due to the rP, and the process goes on until completion, or until you wake up from your dreams, and realize that those dreams could get you incarcerated.



Fuck you fucker. Fuck you fucker. Fuck you fucker. Fuck you fucker. Fuck you fucker!


  • Guest
All due respect!!!
« Reply #98 on: December 23, 2002, 11:55:00 AM »
The stated misinterpretation that the only thing recoverable and advantageous in doing a long reflux is the yield recovered, is misinforming at it's finest! And these misinterpretations are the root causes that have lead most down the wrong path all along!
Now keep in mind that no disrespect is intended here!
Hear Ibee out!
What is the definition of yield and what precisely does that yield consist of! Ibee has had no problem recovering as close to 100% percent yields as scientifically possible!
How much of that has been desirable product??? 100% Who defines desirable product??? An NMR or the User on the street???
The mentor that Ibee followed down this path will tell it like it is, himself...His shit came back from a fallen associate as 96% according the the man. How this was tested and any exaggerations would most assuredly fall on the shoulders of those that spew the same fuckin propaganda as the ones who want to stamp it out and put your ass behind bars for life for corrupting society!!! So in my mind it doesn't carry as much weight as a scientific UNBIASED assessment of the purity!
The cook times that Ibee has seen spewed onto this board as a method of obtaining goods does not jive with the cook times it took to cook a pound back in the day using P2P and as an amusement and an effort to test the methods being discussed here....Ibee did as was instructed and soon discovered he fell short.
That mentor that was mentioned preached patience and this thread wouldn't exist if he hadn't!
His guidance and the seemingly reluctant guidance of schooled chemists on this site were enough to prove PROOF positive what this threads espouses as a general theme! PURITY!!! You can argue it until your blue in the face!
The Many variations speak for themselves and Ibee for one has been accused all along as being one that boasts the absurd while each step of the way let on as to how it could be performed to obtain what was being obtained in this circle!
Had most taken the cotton out of their ears and stuck it in their mouths, they'd have had the openmindedness to follow along!
How fuckin embarrasing is it to tell everybee your getting 90-95% return at 85-90% purity??? Knowing you'll be laughed at and never bee taken serious???
Well read the archives and you'll know what I have contended with and I'm still here telling each and every one to stop selling out! Quit selling yourselves short! Quit settling for less!

What adds insult to injury here is that most will find that the best feed can be obtained by employing a fifteen minute step that I tried to emphasize in most of the 950 posts I've made here!
The only encryption existed in the skeptics minds(or the oppositions that tryed to keep it from being employed that had full access to this board and fought tooth and nail at derailing it!!)
I'm right now...I was right before and I'll be right again as long as I decide that the wrongs need to be exposed!
High Horse??? You're GodDamn right!!! I earned this saddle..blood sweat and tears!
Please weight out those Yeild facts before spewing them out as verbatim!
If i start out with one pill...60mg pfed 2.5mg antihistamine plus an indeterminate amount of binders/encapsulators/denaturants...and come back holding 60mg of pure pfed...
What are my chances of of coming back with less than what I started with after rxn using LG reactants? That is not determined by what went in! It's determined by how well you know the conversion process! Sure I'll get 100% percent what?????
20meth80pfed 30meth70pfed.....etc.... all determined by the ratio of the reactants and catalysts(dh20)....PLUS THE AMOUNT of time given, added to that the temp required based on the ratio...and the list goes on!
The whole point of this post???
It's not about's about potency(PURITY)...
Most only associate purity with what's been made available...
Short cooks=impurities(which most identify with as being GOOD SHIT) + Meth =100% return
Long Refux=less impurities....more meth!
If some think Ibee is outta LINE here....THINK AGAIN!
Try it before you bye it!

Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt


  • Guest
« Reply #99 on: December 23, 2002, 03:34:00 PM »
Far out Ware,you realy let go then didnt ya?

What are you advocating?The tetra wash,the long reflux,
the milder cook?
Sorry man,I know this is as straight forward as you get,
but to me this post is more cryptic then all the others of yours that Ive read.

Who are you letting go at in particular,and what has got you so fired up?
I feel this would help me clarify the intention behind your post.

Take it easy bro,I dont like to see ya like this.