Author Topic: New Straight to E -- a novel extraction tech.  (Read 68953 times)

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halfkast

  • Guest
polysorbates and polysorbate80 Very sol in...
« Reply #220 on: October 08, 2003, 12:07:00 AM »
polysorbates and polysorbate80

Very sol in water; sol in alcohol, cottonseed oil, corn oil, ethyl acetate, methanol, toluene.


I don't think the outter jacket is polysorbate.
I very recently read that DCM is the solvent used to coat many pharmacuetical tablets.


barkingburro

  • Guest
DCM?
« Reply #221 on: October 08, 2003, 10:43:00 AM »

awayman

  • Guest
Thank you! Geez.
« Reply #222 on: October 10, 2003, 08:32:00 PM »
Thanks Geez, it seems you are always very helpful and damn fast also! Soon after swim posted he went and ran the leftovers through a second time and made up for a considerable amount of the lost percentage. Swim thinks the alcohol could be maybee bumped up to 75ml per box and it wouldn't affect the outcome in a negative way.
Thanks again bee.  ;)


awayman

  • Guest
Hold On.............
« Reply #223 on: October 11, 2003, 11:48:00 AM »
Swim has a friend, he uses the 24hr models and this method and is pulling yields in the high 90%'s. Lots and lots of waste come out of the 24hr models but he swears and swim HAS give his gear a whirl and it's right on time. Plus he is also getting higher yields due to the very clean pseudo produced from this method. Swim thinks he reduces them with a 1:1:.7(Hypo:Pseudo:I2) and a 8 to 12 hr reflux or until clear, bases with 20% lye solution, uses tolulene as NP, dry gases with HCL, or drops Muratic in with dh20 to catch what it pushes out and evaps. ANYWAY, the 24's work fine.


psilocin

  • Guest
(Post deleted by psilocin)
« Reply #224 on: December 16, 2003, 07:13:00 PM »

geezmeister

  • Guest
there is a reason
« Reply #225 on: December 16, 2003, 09:42:00 PM »
Isopropyl alcohol is used purposefully here since it is less agressive a solvent than methanol, and a good pseudo HCl solvent when hot. This method uses the particular {i]strengths and weaknesses[/i] of the three principle solvents employed to yield clean pseudo from a range of OTC pseudo medicines. Not all psuedo pills will pull cleanly by this method, and of those that do, some will not if you substitute methanol.

If you use methanol, expect to also extract all of the tripolidine and chloropheneramine maleate in the white 60's. You will need to deal with it by a separate step.


psilocin

  • Guest
boilin alcohols/solvents
« Reply #226 on: December 17, 2003, 05:17:00 AM »
caution should be used as boiling these solutions cause liquid to overflow in some cases. remove the flask of the heater if its overflowing to avoid fire.  :o  :(
note to videoeditor - please include such warnings in write ups, as silly as it is.

elfspice

  • Guest
hot and cold... recrystallisation!
« Reply #227 on: December 22, 2003, 06:08:00 AM »
i was just wading through the middle of this thread, and i came upon something about how pseudo.hcl is virtually insoluble in cold IPA... what about IPA from the freezer, -20°C - -40°C... especially after boiling down to something like 10% above the level of the original volume of xylene. Just cook it up, let it cool with a fan blowing it, wait until it evaporates to the desired volume and then stick it in the freezer.

SHORTY

  • Guest
Why?
« Reply #228 on: December 22, 2003, 06:33:00 PM »
Why wouldn't you just finish evaporating it?

But after thinking about it, what you are proposing is nothing more than a basic recrystalization procedure.   Which could also bee carried out by boiling the alcohol until a skin begins to form then add a little more alcohol and allow to cool.


elfspice

  • Guest
well, recrystallising is the essence of the tek
« Reply #229 on: December 22, 2003, 09:16:00 PM »
i was just thinking that if the technique involves crystallising, why not take advantage of this and save yourself from having to boil the solvents any longer than one has to. when in the freezer the mix will precipitate crystals much earlier. I am suggesting this as a modification to the initial xylene/naptha/ipa boil (after the filtration of the extraction). i don't see why it wouldn't work.

also, if one has a distillation apparatus, it would make a lot of sense to do the boil there, although the distillate would be mixed, one could filter out the crystals, then distill the whole mix down, put the distillate aside for future naptha/ipa/xylene extractions.

geezmeister

  • Guest
other things in the mix
« Reply #230 on: December 22, 2003, 11:24:00 PM »
elfspice-- This method works because at this temperature about the only thing that has precipitated in a filterable form is the pseudoephedrine HCl. Drop the temp ten degrees and gakks start precipitating too. Most of the inactives present and filterable or that attach to the pseudo rinse off with acetone or MEK rinses of the pseudo. If you do not filter the solution hot, you will have more than pseudo in the mix. Filtering while hot has a lot to do with this method working.

VideoEditor settled on the 105C temperature by experimenting and finding his pseudo was cleaner when filtered at that temp. At that temp the solvents xylene and naptha are still holding some inactives in solution which fall out at lower temperatures. You see them fall out of the solution as it cools. At 105C the pseudo has preciptiated in the solvents, but the others that will have not.

If you bring the solution up to temperature too slowly, either by not using enough heat, or by using too small a hotplate to get the volume of solvent hot enough fast enough, you will have an excess of naptha evaporate before it reaches its boiling point and before all the alcohol has evaporated. I noticed this when I tried to increase the size of the extraction and it was taking too long. The volume of solvent was far too small when I was through, and I found PEG in my pseudo. Hot naptha will dissolve PEG from the pill mass, but if you evaporate too much of the naptha before you precipitate out the pseudo, it has to go somewhere. Some of it goes with the pseudo.  Boil the alcohol off too slowly in this method-- by not using enough heat to bring the temperature to 90C fast enough-- and the volume of naptha can drop too low before the pseudo precipitates. Naptha evaporates pretty fast even when it isn't at it boiling point, and when you simmer a large extraction by this method over too small a hot plate, enough naptha can evaporate to leave the solution too crowded with other gakks to contain them all. Adding room temp naptha slows down the boiling off of the alcohol, but gives naptha a friendly place to hide while the pseudo precipitates as the alcohol boils off. Using the right size hotplate, or adding more of the alky/natpha/pseudo solution to the pot with the xylene as it heats up may solve the problem.

I have had this happen on two or three occasions; each time I had a contaminant in the pseudo I did not have when I brought the temperature up faster. when I got peg in the final product I realized the reason was that I let the fluid volume of naptha fall too low to contain it even at temperature. That at least is the way it seems to me. I noticed the volume of the xylene/naptha remaining looked too low, and noted the time it took to get the solution hot enough to drive off the alcohol was common to all such less-than-clean extractions.

If what you filter out of the solution is a mix of crystals of different substances, saving the alcohol has been a false economy.

There is likely a good use to be put to the poor solubility of really cold alcohol. I am not sure this is it.


SHORTY

  • Guest
Recrystallization of nearly pure
« Reply #231 on: December 23, 2003, 12:10:00 AM »
Pseudo or meth is in my opinion the good use geez speaks of.

I too have experienced what you describe geez.  The pseudo didn't precipitate into the xylene freely flowing but stuck to the beaker as well as to itself which By the time i realized what went wrong and added more xylene it just got worse due to the temp drop after adding more xylene.

However, i then added more methanol to dissolve all the solids and continued as usual and then everything went fine from there.

If your pseudo sticks to anything as it starts to precipitate then add more xylene or naptha or both and then add more alcohol. 

Be careful when adding the alcohol because your xylene may bee hotter than the boiling point of the alcohol and it will boil as soon as it hits the xylene.


awayman

  • Guest
Preheat?
« Reply #232 on: December 24, 2003, 08:18:00 AM »
Would a preheat of the xylene before adding to nap/iso for final boil down help here? This would speed up heating time by not dropping the temp of the nap/iso solution so much. However, more would bee required because it would evap faster as well. HMMMMMM test time! AND swim was just going to call it a night and turn out the lights. Oh well sleep is over rated.


xtaldoc

  • Guest
Preheat?
« Reply #233 on: December 24, 2003, 11:42:00 AM »
Swix just finished performing this novel operation on 200 white generic 60s with PEG, povidone, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, carnauba wax, etc, as inactives. Since the overall volume was approx. 4X that which was listed, it was felt that the appropriate thing to do was to employ a make-shift oil bath to minimize naptha loss due to lengthy temp ramping (smallish hot plate). Precipitation of the pfed upon boiling combined extracts with added xylene occurred in a more gradual fashion than Swix expected and the resulting semi-crude pfed weighed 12g after drying.  Of course, this would bee 100% of theory.  The consistancy of the pfed was a bit clumpy at this point and tended to stick to the pyrex evap dish.  Once dry, the pfed was briefly heated to near boiling 2X with MEK (70ml), then washed 2X with acetone. The pfed was no longer tacky when dried and lost most of its tendancy to adhere to the pyrex. Once dried, it was again weighed (10.7g) and taken up in pure isopropanol sufficient to affect complete dissolution. The resulting solution was slightly milky in appearance and turbid.  A bit of acetone was added to the solution and it was allowed to stand at room temp for 20 min prior to placing (covered) in the freezer. After filtration and another 2 acetone washes, the sparkling white needles were allowed to dry in the air with only the gentlest heat and then weighed.  Total yield was 9.45g.  No mp done yet, but experience tells Swix that this stuff is functionally clean enough for use. My hat is off to VE and all who worked to create what I feel is one hell of an elegant technique.  Swix will bee capturing the distillate in some future run, so as to measure the solvent ratios therein and possibly generate to data useful to those wishing to 'heal' the solvent balance during or post boil-down. Good work!!

hulk

  • Guest
am i missing something here does this give you
« Reply #234 on: March 13, 2004, 08:48:00 PM »
am i missing something here does this give you eph. hcl or freebase

stratosphere

  • Guest
it gives you (psuedo)eph.HCl since no bases...
« Reply #235 on: March 14, 2004, 08:34:00 AM »
it gives you (psuedo)eph.HCl since no bases touch the pills in this process.

jesus_verga

  • Guest
Has anyone done STE w/ denatured alcohol ...
« Reply #236 on: April 04, 2004, 09:13:00 PM »
Has anyone done STE w/ denatured alcohol instead of Isopropanol?. Drugstore sells 16 oz bottle for $2. Home Despot sells denatured alcohol for $9 a gallon.

popi

  • Guest
any alcohol
« Reply #237 on: April 04, 2004, 11:08:00 PM »
No ,but b has heard you can use any alky,make sure it is dry!You are trying to save money in the wrong place.This is where you need all high quality,top products!That is if you can get the Iso use it.B can't get Denatured Alcohol,but heard it is the same as Methanol.Here we don't have methanol, they call it methyl alcohol.


jesus_verga

  • Guest
just did STE,,,,blue gakky results
« Reply #238 on: April 04, 2004, 11:21:00 PM »
went by VE's book using brand name 120's. tablets contain "carnuba wax, hypromellose, Mg stearate,  microcrystalline cellulose, polyethylene glycol, povidine, , and titanium oxide. Printed with edible blue ink"

Baynne

  • Guest
New gak?
« Reply #239 on: April 10, 2004, 05:55:00 AM »
120s, from dollar store and the bullseye (with the coating disolved ala Mnky, thanks dude, works great) made BEAUTIFUL long needle like crystals before the final xylene/boil/crash.  The filtrate wasn't very bitter but white powder (looked like powdered sugar).  Still long pretty crystals, so filtered again (this result left a bitter plastic on drying).  The liquid still has lots of beautiful crystals.  WTH?!?  I'm thinking, new gak.  Will try to scoop the crystals when they form, not crash them.  Maybe an a/b?  I'll see what I can figure out, but thought some one might have already seen this.  Wish I could offer some help with this, but I'm clearly outranked in knowledge here.  (BTW, thanks for the sharing of knowledge).