Author Topic: Meth recrystalized ?  (Read 22397 times)

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localbuilder

  • Guest
Meth recrystalized ?
« on: June 24, 2004, 09:15:00 PM »
Swim is useing denatured alc. and acetone to recrystalize his some what smelly rocks he picked up.  Was wondering if he started with a small batch and slowly added more dilute meth to the cold mother liquor and already formed crystals.  Would the dilute meth being added help make the crystals even bigger?

geezmeister

  • Guest
Go back, Jack, Do it again
« Reply #1 on: June 24, 2004, 09:57:00 PM »
The best way to make bigger crystals is to dissolve the ones you have again in fresh alcohol and grow them again, very slowly, letting the temperature of the alcohol solution fall slowly.

Adding more meth dissolved in alcohol -- partiuclarly if its dilute will more likely dissolve the crystals forming at the time rather than make the crystals you have larger. If you add more saturated meth/alcohol solution to the mix? I can't answer that question. If you let the resultant mix sit undisturbed and allow it to cool slowly, you will get crystal formation, but as to whether it will make larger ones or just additional ones, I cannot answer from experience.

I do know from experience that if you want larger crystals, clean the crystals made in an intital crystallization and then go back, Jack, and do it again. The second time around usually produces much nicer and larger crystals. Let it solution cool slowly and leave it undisturbed for lnger times to obtain larger crystals.


localbuilder

  • Guest
Time
« Reply #2 on: June 24, 2004, 11:25:00 PM »
How slow is slow? and if more alc. is added, in time will the meth find its home or will it continue to stay in the solution?  Thanks for the advice

CharlieBigpotato

  • Guest
slow is usually very slow
« Reply #3 on: June 25, 2004, 12:15:00 AM »
slowness is not a trait likely to bee on the tip of a meth-seeking-bee's mind.

yet, time after time, it does seem to bee a friend toward the successful dream.


jemma_jamerson

  • Guest
cure 'in like wine
« Reply #4 on: June 25, 2004, 03:39:00 AM »

I do know from experience that if you want larger crystals, clean the crystals made in an intital crystallization and then go back, Jack, and do it again. The second time around usually produces much nicer and larger crystals




geez i have read some where i think it was worlok that the crystal meth is like wine, they cure with age (sp?) and ofcause the slower the bigger the shard like lava from a volcano..

and the bigger the meth molecule the stronger the meth, hence bigger the crystal? how can an already formed quantity of a meth crystal get bigger by recrystalising it gain?

and how can it become  bigger? hence stronger?

say you have a 1grm crystal of meth, and recystalise it again, how can you get more meth, hence a bigger crystal?

btw and do you use the same mother liquid when recystalising twice?




SHORTY

  • Guest
The amount of meth wouldn't increase..
« Reply #5 on: June 25, 2004, 04:06:00 AM »
I think it is more like having 10 .10g crystals and redissolving them in order to get 2 .5g crystals so the amount of meth wouldn't increase but it may decrease slightly.

Also, the size of the crystal doesnt reflect the strength of the meth.  Meth is meth.


12cheman12

  • Guest
i remember reading somewhere about forming...
« Reply #6 on: June 25, 2004, 04:17:00 AM »
i remember reading somewhere about forming crystals that when the crystals are being formed it will only stop forming that crystal when there are impurities.
So if you recrystalize once and end up with 10 rocks, the oustide of them would  be the  most impure bit, but when you recrystalize again some more impurities are removed and thus lets 5 big rocks form instead of 10. So if you keep recrystalizing them you should end up with one big crystal. I think thats how it works.

ChemoSabe

  • Guest
Seed Crystals
« Reply #7 on: June 25, 2004, 04:31:00 AM »
Anybee have the discipline to always keep a few honkin big seed crytals around to inspire bigger crystal growth in your theoretical recrystallizations?


jemma_jamerson

  • Guest
shorty
« Reply #8 on: June 25, 2004, 04:37:00 AM »
so you get less meth in the crystals the second time but they are bigger shard in size


wat da fawk ::)


kris_1108

  • Guest
Yep
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2004, 03:52:00 PM »

so you get less meth in the crystals the second time but they are bigger shard in size




Yep! It's like a biscuit broken in two might weigh 30gms. If you break it into eight pieces then it still weighs the same, it's still 30gms of biscuit that you're working with. I have never yielded enough product to recrystalise, but I imagine you would actually lose total weight as the crystals got bigger/more pure. This would be assuming that some of that weight of the original product is impurities, and that these impurities are being left out of the crystals in the crystalisation process.


Bandil

  • Guest
Dual Grade Recrystallization
« Reply #10 on: June 25, 2004, 04:11:00 PM »
Please keep in mind that recrystallizing will remove alot of the impurities. But in the process of doing so, some product is inevitably lost. And generally speaking; the purer you want your product to be, the more product will be lost. This is because of the simple fact that a carefull recrystallization implies that the molecules are kept from crystallizing quickly. Thus alot of product is retained in the mother liquor once the crystallization is complete. Because of this many chemist (myself including), choose to make a "dual grade crystallization".

As this thread is about meth - i'll use that as an example. When recrystallizing an unspecified amount of meth, boiling IPA is added to the soon-to-be-recrystallized-meth, while stirring and heating, untill everything is dissolved. This is cooled really really slowly. Usually the beaker is left in the 90°C oil bath, such that it cool with this as a "jacket". Once roomtemperature, it's placed in the refridgiator, submerged in some water which has room temperature. This will make the temperature gradient lower - thus causing slower crystallization. After a few hours when everything has reached the refridgiator temperature, the beaker is placed in the freezer (dont use a water mantle here - it will freeze). After sitting there undisturbed for about a day or so, the stunning crystals are filtered. These are the "grade A" crystals, ready to use (assuming the initial product was pure enough of course)!

The mother liquors are topped off with 4X volume acetone and put in the freezer. The grainy precipitate, is filtered ans saved in the "grade B" bottle. When its time for a new crystallization the old "grade B" batches are simply thrown in with it. The process is repeated ad infinitum (or untill you are no longer sane  8) ). This way you'll get all "grade A" meth in the end  ;) , while recycling the semi-perfect meth.

Happy weekend and crystallization!

Regards
Bandil


geezmeister

  • Guest
good explanation, bandil!
« Reply #11 on: June 25, 2004, 05:05:00 PM »
Bandil gives a good explanation of the process. I will, with meth, do a fast first growth by chilling the alcohol/acetone solution. I save the first crystals, which I rinse quickly with acetone, I add the acetone to the remaining motherliquor and reduce the motherliquor to saturation again. I add acetone again, and chill. I add these crystals to the first batch. I save the motherliquor remaining and do pretty much what bandil does with it, or  let it slowly evaporate over the course of a week at room temperature.

The first batch crystals I get I put in acetone and bring the acetone to near boiling temp. I then add alchol a little at a time until almost all the meth crystals have dissolved. I will quickly filter the entire solution and let it cool down very slowly at room temp in an out of the way location. Given a day, sometimes longer, I get nice flat plates of meth the size of nickles or a little larger. These are very fragile, and I don't try to keep them from breaking apart. I bag the acetone rinsed, dried fragments in sacks and call them diamonds, which they resemble.

The size of the crystal is not an indication of purity. Forming crystals does not make meth any stronger. It may clean some stubborn trash from the mix, which will make the stuff cleaner. Meth is meth, whether its a powder or a transparent or translucent crystal. In so far as recrystallizing tends to exclude impurities, you improve the purity of the stuff, which may have a noticeable impact on its percieved potentcy. You have actually done nothing but improve the purity of the product you do, which in effect is increasing the actual dosage of meth by weight of what you do. The benefit is the exclusion of by products and trash.

Hematite describes a process of dissolving meth in OTC IPA (water and all) and putting the saturated solution in a thermos (preheated) which is allowed to stand a day in a very still, quiet place at room temp before being transferred to the refrigerator, then carefully a day later to the freezer. The crystal size he obtains is amazing. I once asked him where he got that "little bitty quarter" he put in the photo to give a comparison for size visualization. I tried his method, and it does work as advertised. I have trouble being that patient, when the size is less important to me than the cleanliness of the final product.

You can rush it to as little as two to three hours in the freezer with improved product, but the best results are with slow growth over a day or so. One more place that patience pays.


Red_Crown

  • Guest
On practical use..
« Reply #12 on: June 29, 2004, 09:41:00 AM »
I agree that meth is meth and all that, but what if an impurity hinders particular methods of administration?

If vaporized, some substances (esp. polymers, resins, waxes..) could make it harder for the meth molecules to escape the molten solution and enter the atmosphere. Being, in effect, blocked-in. So the user applies more heat (in order to see vapor) but the higher temperature causes more pyrolysis of the meth - potentially MUCH more.   The effect is, in fact, identical to why the boiling point of water rises when it is saturated with NaCl.

Who knows, there might be some impurities  which are more-or-less bound to the meth molecule, and the meth-impurity dimer can cross mucous membranes intact but won't release the meth so it can cross the blood-brain barrier and/or bind to any receptors. Perhaps some dimers wouldn't make it into the blood at all, but be cycled into the lymphatic system and processed like waste from the get-go. Such a dimer wouldn't be so much an impurity as a 'custom' adulterant, but the point remains. 

I think the first scenario of a gooey mixture causing smokers to burn their meth is likely and, in fact, prevalent.

And.. Oral administration would seem to be the best in these cases, but who knows.. Technically, someday there may be something which, in the stomach or something, can partake in a reaction pathway which can destroy the meth molecules.

All I say is: a) Anything is possible, and z) Humans are not perfect sample analytical tools; our methods of administration matter completely.


ChemoSabe

  • Guest
Liquid Nitrogen
« Reply #13 on: June 29, 2004, 10:01:00 AM »
I've heard that the Mexican made chunky rock salt looking meth usually known as "murder" on the streets is made via having liquid nitrogen poured directly into the recrytallizing mother liquor mix. The crytals form nearly instantly and from what swim has had of this stuff it's the highest quality product he's ever sampled or seen coming off the streets.

It does totally go against the concept of slow recrystallization but it leaves no residues in the vaporization vessel is experienced as TOP TOP quality.

It's literally "sugar meth".

Anyone had experience reXing with liquid nitro?

PS. to red_crown; Yes meth is meth but the higher the purity/least contaminant the more supreme the experience (at least for non needle users) But I think that's sort of what you were saying.


cycosyince

  • Guest
purification by crystalization
« Reply #14 on: June 29, 2004, 10:36:00 AM »
From my understanding, The formation of crystals are a result of the molecules having the needed conditions to do so, met. When the substance crystalizes, the molecules build a lattice which squeezes most impurities out onto the outer surface where a suitible wash can remove it. Only since the number and types of impurities are anyones guess, the wash works best by dissolving a small amount of the surface of the crystals, which in turn removes the foothold the impurities might have. For many substances and compounds, crystalizing returns are the highest in purity, the cost for purity is exacted from the yeild, and the use of clean and uncompromised materials, vessles and labware/equip have a distinct role in purity at the eop.

Patience is a virtue! Any way to help this process get done faster is a result of patiently raising hell till a way is found. :-[


Jacked

  • Guest
From the inside out
« Reply #15 on: June 29, 2004, 03:54:00 PM »
The formation of a crystal is from the inside out, it's constantly pushing impurity's to its surface were the second solvent(duel solvent)scrubs the crystals surface as it grows.. a trapped peace of impurity in the lattes breaks the growth at that point creating a new surface to be cleaned. If there is a lot of impurity's in the material being crystallized it stands to reason you will wind up with a small crystal, Hence the more times you recrystallize your product, the less impurity's to fight crystal growth, leaving larger crystals..
 The funny thing about growing large crystals is it requires the mother liquid not to be rich in meth but impurity's.. The biggest crystals I have ever seen comes from mother liquid that was almost
brown and always after most of the meth had been harvested from it.  Surrian wrap the top of the beaker and leave for a few days. Be sure it is in a vibration free area. Heavy walking can make a cake fall and the same type vibration will disturb growing crystals the same way.


localbuilder

  • Guest
Frustrated
« Reply #16 on: July 01, 2004, 03:20:00 PM »
Swim dilutes crystals in den.alc, then boils off until crystals start to form on the sides.  Adds a few drops of den. alc. to dissolve again while boiling.  Adds around 6 times the amount in acetone and then has to add a few more drops of den. alc again to dissolve before slowly cooling to room temp and then to the freezer.     All swim keeps getting is millions of long thin fragile crystals.  Tryed a few diff. ways with useing den. and acetone.  Any comments

morpheus

  • Guest
experiences
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2004, 03:47:00 PM »
Finally have to put a post up.
Whateverybee is saying is true.
Size does not necessesarily mean potentsy.
It is a good indicator of purity though.
Once saw some boulders evapped in DH2O over a
three week period.

ChemoSabe

  • Guest
Making a ReXed "Sea Urchin"
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2004, 05:15:00 PM »
Swim discovered through trial and error that in order to consistently not add too much alc (he always uses 99% iso) that he never fully dissolves all the product. Then the fully saturated mix of acetone/99%isopropanol is decanted off from the remaining undissolved product into a spanking clean flask. This is then left to cool on the hot plate itself. If thin crystals form the hot plate is reheated to a mild boil, swirled and allowed to again cool without disturbance. Repeat this process of reheating/swirling/allowing-to-cool-undisturbed until something that looks like a crystal sea urchin forms in the center of the flask composed of toothpick width (give or take) needles.

The use of seed crystals (previously made and added once the cooling begins) can also be of decent usefulness in this process.

I'll soon link relevant threads to this post.

Worlocks classic "newbee reX technique"

Post 235464 (missing)

(Worlock: "Re: ReCrystalizing Chilli", Stimulants)


Newer variation on Worlocks theme

Post 483474

(ChemoSabe: "Shard Garden", Stimulants)


PS. Working with less than a gram to reX is much more difficult than working with more. At least with this particular technique.

Edit: another comment for localbuilder.

It sounds like you might be using only alcohol for your reX (1 solvent). Try starting out first with only acetone (heated to mild boil) and then add alc (2nd solvent) to dissolve most of the remainder. (Just like Worlock suggests in the first link given) The advantage in using two solvents as opposed to one is described earlier in this thread.


cycosyince

  • Guest
either or
« Reply #19 on: July 02, 2004, 01:56:00 AM »
Methanol works really well also. I have always seen consistant results, lg xtals. Just have to avoid evapping to a super satch. Unless you just can't wait of course...
cool, cool, cool, BAM!!! xtals!  :-[