The Vespiary

The Hive => Methods Discourse => Topic started by: menthol_man on October 04, 2001, 09:08:00 PM

Title: Quick E Methylamine
Post by: menthol_man on October 04, 2001, 09:08:00 PM: Hmm I got to thinking... What can I do to make this whole
Hexamine tablet to methylamine thing go a little *faster*.
I was thinking that after the hexamine tablets dissolved and
you got your first set of Ammonia Crystals... coudlnt we
assume that the reaction is going and then take the solution
and run it through a centrifuge? That would seem to speed
things up *quite* a bit... Screw filtering! I would
hypothesize that you would not need all the Ammonia compunds
to crystalize because they would settle out really fast when
that centrifuge kicks on for a few minutes. If im not
mistaken your centrifuge will seperate my molar weight with
the lightest on the top and that would be out hydroscopic
metylamine. You can get a centrifuge used for 140 USD.
I think its worth it to thoes Kilo batch in a night bees :)

Input everybody? Should I blow my money on one? It would
work wouldnt it? Anyone ever try it?
Gott Mit Uns!
Title: Re: Quick E Methylamine
Post by: terbium on October 04, 2001, 09:24:00 PM: Input everybody? Should I blow my money on one?
OK, here is my opinion - you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. So, go ahead and buy a centrifuge; in your dreams. We both know that you are just fantasizing and will never actually do anything.

PS
You should be posting your fantasy rants in the Couch or Newbee Forums.
Title: Re: Quick E Methylamine
Post by: menthol_man on October 04, 2001, 09:39:00 PM: Hmm sounds like you either a "has been" or a "never will bee"
$150 for a used centrifuge is REASONABLE. Who here can't
afford $150 to buy one on auction if your already making
honey Come on! Of course if you can't make methylamine of
your own well your fucked anyway... its just a way to speed
things up. THE QUESTION IS CAN A CENTRIFUGE SPEED UP THE
MANUFACTURE OF METHYLAMINE. We are not intrested in your
"opinion" of how much money I have. Even the tiny tinest
microbatch with only a 20% yield will generate enough income
to buy a centrifuge.... Dorkus >:(

So in conclusion your a Homosexual and I think you could
really speed up production that way... Also...
I have been doing some thermal work with the hexamine
tablet synth and you can pull out crystals of ammonia
REALLY fast with your freezer. I will keep everyone updated
on this because we all have freezers ;D .
So well see if we cant safve on that centrifuge because
the last time i chcked my freezer it had a *tad* larger
capacity than a centrifuge. Anyone have anything *USEFUL*
to contribute on the idea of cooling down the solution to
rip out the Ammonia nasties?
Gott Mit Uns!
Title: Re: Quick E Methylamine
Post by: menthol_man on October 04, 2001, 10:10:00 PM: WOW ;D Thermal seperation is *REALLY* the way to GO!!!
Let me give all of you the run down on what I've done tonight!

Used the Rhodium synth for Hexamine tablets to Methylamine.

Step one
I added my water, acid and dropped in my hexamine tablets.

Step Two
Allowed to mix together and the Hexamine tablets wore away
to nothing. After everything was dissolved I heated the
mixture until no more carbon dioxide bubbles came out.

Step Three
I noticed that the Ammonia crystals were forming, I put the
jar into the fridge. Then a huge amount og crystals formed
after like 5 minutes... just let it sit it's not going to
freeze like plain water would. Then after it seems like
nothing else will settle out (15 min) you can get out the
methylamine by using a medical syringe. It's so fine that
the tip acts like a filter. Let that syringe sit in the
freezer for like 5 minutes. Notice that the syringe has
no crystals of Ammonia! You have methylamine!!! Of course
you will need to get rid of that damn water. Use Rhodiums
idea of dessicating... Use damp rid from the local hardware
store. It's more hydroscopic than methylamine. So it
pulls the water onto itself. Think of Damp Rid (Calcium
something .... im tired) as a bully snatching a lollypop
(the water) from a little kid (the methylamine) So after
a while you just have a little kid (methylamine) ;D

((( re-edit after the fact : I got tired of waiting for
my piece of shit calcium dissector and I whipped out
a burner and cooked that shit up... its was of high quality
just get a portable propane burner and cook that shit up
OUTSIDE WITH GLASS! Methylamine Hcl fucks up Metal.
It turns purple (im pretty sure) I fucked up a metal spoon
that way.))))

So there.. no solvent used at all... a 100% thermal
seperation. Go save your solvent for other things :)
This works way faster too!!!

Maybee I should be called the "Speed Bee"
for making it faster :)
Gott Mit Uns!
Title: Re: Quick E Methylamine
Post by: terbium on October 04, 2001, 10:17:00 PM: . THE QUESTION IS CAN A CENTRIFUGE SPEED UP THE
MANUFACTURE OF METHYLAMINE.
It couldn't speed up the manufacture for you because you are too much of a moron to ever manufacture methylamine, no matter how much equipment you have.

Again, you should take your imbecilic babblings to the Couch or Newbee Forums.
Title: Re: Quick E Methylamine
Post by: menthol_man on October 04, 2001, 10:28:00 PM: Well kiddies im back...
After getting out all the methylamine / water solution
from the ammonia crystals; The solution got a *little* bit
of ammonia on the last drawing of liquid. Maybe thats
because I took it out of the freezer for too long? But the
amount is really small and unimportant. Lets see how it
turns out after I run it through a dessicator... until
tomorow!

8)
Gott Mit Uns!
Title: Re: Quick E Methylamine
Post by: baalchemist on October 04, 2001, 10:31:00 PM: Why not just run a MeAm synth that has 95% yield, much simpler & doesnt require a centrifuge to seperate the 60%+ in crap that you produced. That $150 is better spent on more hexamine, better yet ever heard of nitromethane.....now theres simplicity.
GODISNOWHERE
Title: Re: Quick E Methylamine
Post by: menthol_man on October 04, 2001, 10:36:00 PM: Weeeel...
im trying for the whole OTC thing. I don't want to order
*ANYTHING* except for the sassy... I really dont see a way
around that... but if your records were analyzed you would
bee really clean :) . I will definatly look into higher
yields but right now I want to improve the agent smith
synth into a really well documented procedure. Maybe I'll
throw in some pictures? I dislike the write up because
it's not as complete as it could bee. I will pickup the
slack. I like it better than Al synths. This might beecome
my production synth! A truly excellent synth can be done
in the back of the woods with mayonnaise jars. In this
biz.... it kinds comes down to that... :P
Gott Mit Uns!
Title: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: menthol_man on October 05, 2001, 01:43:00 AM: I just verified it.. I got _very_ clean methylamine.
And I diddent use one drop of solvent ever and no
crazy vacumes or anythine remotley difficult... all part
of my otc mayonayze jar plans!!!
Anyone looking to make methylamine definately use the
freezer to finish getting out your crystals!!! And do
all you work in the freezer so the ammonia stays hard.
Methylamine will NOT freeze in your freezer when combined
with water no matter what.

So in conclusion I am cool and terbium is a piece of shit.
Boy isn't this starting to sound like everyones favorite
alt.drugs / alt.drugs.chemestry Oh yeah... PlastyK
if your listening you suck too 8)

So like Eminem would say FUCK EVERYBODY ;D

The Hive Kicks ASS !
Rock On :)
Gott Mit Uns!
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: cilliersb on October 05, 2001, 02:27:00 AM: HaHaHaHaHa!!!

That was not with, but at Methanol man.

I'll give you this dude......YOU'VE GOT BALLS!!, but you surely know jack shit about chemistry. What fucking Ammonia crystals dude? did you freeze this stuff to like -200C or something? I think you're talking about the formed ammonium chloride.

By the way, Terbium has been around for a while and it's clear that you haven't. Please don't pick fights with senior beez and have some fucking respect!!

I would correct your errors, but you're way too cocky, size down a bit and people will help you. >:(
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: menthol_man on October 05, 2001, 12:21:00 PM: Actually yes, I have use dry ice and freon substitutes to
drop to EXTREME tempatures and yes ammonia does form up
as crystals ;D
Gott Mit Uns!
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: Chromic on October 05, 2001, 01:54:00 PM: Menthol man, respect elder bees who often have part or all of a chemistry degree, or who at the very least, have made honey before. Your methods are nothing new, and don't even work that well.
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: menthol_man on October 05, 2001, 08:13:00 PM: Here are statments by RHODIUM direct quotes that agree with
me so there.

"Centrifuging could actually be better than filtering, but
not all of the bees have access to such equipment."

"You mean [centrifuging] to remove the binders? That sounds very good."

So to everyone who says my techniques are wrong / bad...
can shove it... unless your better than Rhodium? :o

Peace out ;D
Gott Mit Uns!
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: ChesterCopperpot on October 06, 2001, 01:48:00 AM: Mentholman: Notice how 8 out of the 13 posts in this thread are by you. And when another bee does post it's to make fun of you. I don't think your getting the message. So I'll just give tell it to ya. "Get a life."

(Maybe you could brag about your centrifuge equipment to your real life friends, I'm sure they'll be impressed.)
let us SWIM
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: Trenchcoat on October 06, 2001, 09:10:00 AM: Christ, he was just asking a question. Although I don't think he should have dissed an elder bee like terbium, terbium had no reason to say what he did in his first reply. I've been pretty facinated by the concept of making MDMA with easy-to-get chems since menthol_man told me about it. I don't know about all this making bromine stuff or making methylamine from tablets but it might be a better method for a chem lackey like me than performing an amalgamation.

ChesterCopperpot tells menthol_man to get a life. Ooooooohhh... I can only imagine that it will take months for him to restore his self-image.

Better loving through chemistry.
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: ChesterCopperpot on October 08, 2001, 02:07:00 AM: Wasn't trying to diss anyone, just pointing out what I noticed in this thread.
let us SWIM
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: wandering101 on October 08, 2001, 03:44:00 AM: Anywhere where filtering has to be done, centrifuging is going to make it faster. So does vacuum. And building a dirt cheap centrifuge would not be hard.
Menthol_man - first you say we ALL have freezers, then you say you have dry ice and freon substitutes, and yes ammnonia does form crystals?
OK, but I DON'T think my freezer (which doesn't freeze vodka) is going to form ammonia crystals - ammonia compounds, well it kinda depends on WHAT ammonia compounds.
Terbium knows his stuff, hell yes, but he can be EXTREMELY nasty (nastier than many of the chems we work with) - take care.
OK, so please do your complete rewrite of Agent_Smith's OTC MDMA. If you don't want to post it here, PM it to me, and I'll offer critique (if necessary) - your use of thermal seperations seems interesting, although I've noticed it as a preponderance in your posts - something to do with acquiring dry ice?
Hoping to see it soon.

How damn nano is your synth if you're medical syringes to get out the methylamine?
Insulin syringes (the ones with needles fine enough to do what you're suggesting) are 1 ml each. I do NOT have the patience for that.
If you're not suggesting insulin syringes, what gauge needle are you using?
Why not simply place filtration appartus in the freezer, sort of a column with filter paper every 2 cm or so? Freeze it, and then pour from the top - each layer of filter paper will catch some of the crystals as they filter through - test it first, so that it takes about 16 or 17 min for the solution to seep through to the bottom, and if your 15 min is correct, you have a reusable filtration column.
Reusable because you simply let it heat up to room temp, and the crystals will fall through the column to the bottom, cleaning your filtration column.
No messing around with syringes.
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: cilliersb on October 08, 2001, 06:24:00 AM: Nice idea Wandering!! this may very well work.

Oh and sorry for getting so hectic earlier on in this thread. I was feeling a bit frisky and really not too impressed at the time with some of the rough stuff said to Terbium.

Sorry Meth_Man, but this happens when we pick fight with older beez.

Peace!
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: dovlatov on October 08, 2001, 09:19:00 PM: And building a dirt cheap centrifuge would not be hard.

Not to mention the myriad of fine centrifugal devices available to hive children via introductory chem sets. Add a variable speed drill and oy vey! I'm separating!
One piece at a time..and it didn't cost me a dime.
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: menthol_man on October 10, 2001, 09:52:00 AM: the syringe i use is actually really large... about
400ML. It was not exactly for medical purposes...
I took a very fine needle tip from another medical
syringe and it was compatable with the threads on my
Extra large jumbo syringe.. I simple pulled back the
plunger and the created vacumme would suck up the liquid.
I diddent even have to hold it just let it sit in the jar
and bang 400 ml ;D
Gott Mit Uns!
Title: Re: QUICK E WORKS!
Post by: spric on October 10, 2001, 09:39:00 PM: God damn, I don't normally talk shit, but dumb mother fuckers like this just don't appear out of the blue. If 13 posts are by one person, 7 others have wasted their time by replying. Maybee it is beer speaking, but first and foremost you used calcium chloride. Now I don't know jack shit about Ochem, and maybee all of those books I have read are lying, but you should look up the basic reactions of simple amines and calcium chloride that occur. Now what yields did you really get. I understand that you are almost 18 years old and are really excited, but SHUT THE FUCK UP. Fuck I've been away from this site for too long. Where's a smart person to the rescue, or is terbium busy with his foot up someones ass?
4:20
Title: Re: Quick E Methylamine
Post by: PolytheneSam on October 11, 2001, 04:24:00 PM: Ammonium chloride and methylamine hydrochloride are centrifuged here after filtering.
http://www.orgsyn.org/prep.asp?prep=cv1p0347 (http://www.orgsyn.org/prep.asp?prep=cv1p0347)

http://www.geocities.com/dritte123/PSPF.html
Title: Re: Quick E Methylamine
Post by: menthol_man on October 11, 2001, 08:25:00 PM: Hey ya'll take a look at that website and check out the
quotes below... it seems to prove im right...

nah nah nah nah ;) :)

2. The methylamine hydrochloride solutions should be cooled rapidly in order to bring the salt down in small crystals which may be easily purified.
3. Centrifuging the precipitates is the only satisfactory method of drying, as all the products tend to take up water when allowed to stand in the air.

Gott Mit Uns!
Title: need help with methylamine
Post by: brownhornet on April 01, 2002, 04:25:00 PM: baal that vac reflux didnt fly;
1kg hexamine and 3300mm 31.45% muratic
20 mmhg @ 80-85c for 4hrs failed, 8hrs failed
well getting mostly ammonium chloride 70-80% mass of starting ammonium chloride.
baal really need your help, tried changing variables one at a time, vac/temp,running time but no luck.
frustration is killing me, please help
Title: Never ran it on that large of a scale before, ...
Post by: baalchemist on April 03, 2002, 02:27:00 AM: Never ran it on that large of a scale before, that may be your problem. Some reactions dont scale-up well, this may be one of them. I havent ran that reaction in a few years, but it had always worked for me rather consistently. I do remember that you dont want it really 'refluxing', just short of it. On a large scale it was brought up(theorized) that maybe adding a slight bit of para-formaldehyde will help react any excess AmCl. that may form.
GODISNOWHERE
Shoot Narcs, Not Drugs