The Vespiary
The Hive => Methods Discourse => Topic started by: cirus on August 20, 2004, 05:15:00 PM
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hay everybody i am new here nd was wondering if this will work
using this (below) moethodwill i be able to make p2p from pheudoeiredrine
1025g 75% sulfuric acid was mixed with 1g ZnCl2, and 192g (1.16 mol) Ephedrine or Pseudoephedrine freebase was dissolved at a temperature of 50-100°C, and the reaction mixture was heated further to 145-150°C. At 125°C steam is passed through the solution to facilitate mixing of the contents. At 145°C the stream of steam is increased, and during 2.5-3 hours the phenylacetone is steam distilled from the reaction mixture. The the crude phenyl-2-propanone, which is free from propiophenone, is isolated by toluene extraction of the distillate. After distillation through a short vigreaux column, 130g (82%) of phenyl-2-propanone is isolated in a purity of 99.8%.
then buy which insructions would i be able to turn p2p into mdp2p i am assuming that this is possible but i am a newbee to chemistray so correct me if im wrong
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I'm not too sure on the md-P2P part, but why not synthesise your P2P from styrene monomer, that would bee a FUCK of a lot cheaper than using the suspious and expensive eph/pfed as a P2P precursor.
UTFSE for styrene monomer ;D
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AFAIK, there's no way to cenvert P2P to MD-P2P
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just demethylate eugenol an then methylenate it to get safrole, most simple way to get precursors with reduced risks. there are loads of ways of getting to MDP2P from there.
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evoh you make it sound like its that easy. I have still yet to read a success story from eugenol to safrole. :(
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Yeah dont get people round ehre started on eugenol conversion, you will burried in facts.
Its not as easy as whack it all in and bang its auto safrole, its a pain in the ass rxn (outside of a proper lab setup) which i am not yet to be satisfied with up to the point of doing it myself....
p2p-->mdp2p no....
styrene-->p2p shane_warne (sp?) has a good thread which is a mile long with info on this so check that out via utfse.
-AC
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eugenol demeylation can look difficult but using the ALI3 method it is reasonably simple with inert gear to do its just the work up on theses things that pisses people off. but the ability to get a lot of useful material without allerting the drug taskforce is a high priority, its just a matter of how much and what sort of effort your willing to put in. even if you can't operate under inert conditions it is possible, and there are many other ways to get there depending on what chems you can obtain easily or make.
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but using the ALI3 method it is reasonably simple with inert gear
The problem within the clandestine arena is not the AlI3, thats made rather easily as stated in the proceedure, the inert gas? go get some argon, easy....
BUT, the problem is the little piece of addition required in the demethylation, a PTC, or didnt you read that bit? they are hard to get for normal people to get a hold of easily and hence thats why everyone isnt using eugenol yet....
You make it sound so easy evoh, the proceedure isnt that hard, its getting the materials and setup that is the hard bit...
even if you can't operate under inert conditions it is possible
Reaction needs to be under inert gas shield, the work-up is the part where it says it could possibly be avoided.
and there are many other ways to get there depending on what chems you can obtain easily or make
Ok enlighten us.....
Apart from what is listed on rhodiums site....
You cannot use, any PTC's or pyridine.
And references for proceedures would be even better, if you find an OTC method for eugenol demthylation that does not require either of those two things i will personally congrats you for fixing the clandestine worlds safrole access problem.
-AC
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but why were PTC's so hard to obtain?
Visit your local pool supplier for algae-killer, or get a can of disinfectant like lysol. Instant PTC.
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The key difference is an effective PTC for this reaction.
I dont know what type of PTC your refering to by the use of pool stuff or disinfectant, but the use of a mixture which includes other crap other than the PTC may poison your product or create a reaction competition and not do what you want....
There has been much talk on OTC PTC's.... utfse
An effective PTC for these reactions are quantanery ammonia salts and PEG's (as rhodium said once before i think??) what others are effective in eugenol demthylation? and are safe for use in the proceedure....
-AC
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Try comfert faberic softner as ptc or ethylene glycol as solvent (raidiator corrosion inhibitor)
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Well in reading around there is alot of people who say it works and it doesnt... more say it doesnt....
quant ammonium salts are not to hard to make (apart from acetonitrile solvent req) via OTC but its a fairly time consuming.... and we know these work for this PTC reaction.
-AC
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is typically alkyl (C12-C14) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride or bromide at ~40 % concentration. As far as I know, it depends on its PTC action to mess up cell membranes, killing algae, thus it can't be poisoned. Similar compounds can be found in Lysol and similars, in much lower concentration. (0.1 - 0.5%)
PEGs are common, though I don't know how often they are to be found pure. In any case, there should be little reason to make your own quaternary salts.