Well, well, well..............it seems that I have stirred this thread back into life.
abacus:Abolt, I must have missed the correction by KCN, sorry about that I thought i had the whole thread and had no knowledge of a correction.No need for an apology.
Its just that I didn't want other bees to be discouraged by that thread because you left something out.
Good methylamine.hcl is not that hard at all, in fact, really simple using hexamine (solid camping fuel tablets)and HCL.I am aware of that, Swim has seen MeNH3Cl in good yields by substituting with Hexamine and Hcl and following the Vogel's procedure.
I also go so far to say from experience that the reaction occurs below 103-104DegC. The reaction (without ethanol) starts at about 80DegC and further heating in a hot water bath so that the flask temperature hovers around 95-100DegC works like a charm (which is not the method org suggest using ethanol).That may be correct, I only quoted what the most common literature stated.
orgy: What you think is actually not important,Well it seems to be important enough to get an over the top, egotistical reply from you.
It was new enough that the IG-Farben got this patent granted, so I guess it is not a "fandangled arse about version" but something different.Then, unless you are saying that BDB and Swim are both liars, how is it different?
BDB and Swim have stated that when All the Formate and Ethanol has been distilled the reaction is incomplete, so aside from removing formaldehyde at a lower reaction temp, what part does it play?
??
important is that it works fine and produces better yields in much shorter time than the method proposed before (the one outlined in Vogels 3rd). ...........and where did I say that it didn't?
?
There is no difference if formaldehyde and ammoniumchloride or hexamine and HCl are used. Read the thread and you MIGHT be able to realize this.I have stated the same thing. Read the thread and
YOU MIGHT be able to realize this.
abolt, find something better and post it, or fuck the shut up, ok? GO AND GET YOUR GUTS FUCKED!!!!!!
I have the impression that quite a lot of bees like this "fandangled arse about version" very well and I cant understand what you complain about if not your own incapabilities.I am not complaining, I am merely trying to give my understanding of the reaction. My opinions are based on the
actual research of Swim and another bee.
Orgy, I find it quite hypocritical that you would take an egoistic approach to my statements after all the crap you have stated about moderators having "ego problems".
FWIW, I don't care if I am right or wrong.........for if I am proven correct, then I know something...........and if I am proven incorrect.......then I learn something.
EITHER WAY I WIN!
By not allowing my ego to enter into things I hope to attain wisdom.
I SUGGEST YOU DO THE SAME!!!!!!!!
Armageddon: Secondly, I wouldn't try extracting methylamine*HCl from ammonium chloride with (hot) methanol - NH4Cl is pretty soluble in it, so separating the two with MeOH is not advised.That's strange, the information I have states that NH4Cl is only
slightly soluble in Methanol, and from what I have learned at the Hive, small amounts of NH4Cl are tolerable in aminations due to the selectivity of Methylamine in the reaction.
Just some of the reasons why the patented procedure posted by Orgy will work.........for the second time, where have I stated that it will not.
whereas your proposed procedure will probably fail (or produce mainly NH4Cl)...How did you arrive at that conclusion, it is virtually the same procedure?
(I tried it BTW, quick heating/distillation simply results in incomplete reaction - only advised if you need loads of ammonium chloride )Which further validates the point that Swim and BDB have been making that the reaction is not finished
after the distillation of formate/ethanol and that a further higher reaction temperature is required.
So please don't flame Organikum because you tweaked too much!............for the second time, I did not flame Orgy!!!!!
..........at least up until this post.
(remember that methylamine is ONLY made if the formed formic acid is REMOVED from the reaction, too much water/too little alcohol inhibits this)......are you saying that the addition of alcohol is essential to the formation of Methylamine via hexamine and HCl??
Otherwise thanks for taking the time to write
your explanation as to how the reaction proceeds.
BDB & Antocho: Thank you for your contributions. I will study what you have stated closely.