Hydroquinone amination?

[Lestat]

SWIM has hydroquinone (photographic grade Aq. soln.) SWIM wonders if it is possible to replace one of hydroxyls with an -NH2 group, forming hydroxyamphetamine or perhaps simultaneously methylate and add the amino group, to form MDA?

[Bandil]

Could you please try to explain your idea a little more clearly? I have a very hard time understanding how you plan on turning hydroquinone intro hydroxyamphetamine? And going from there to MDA? Better have some unknown killer reaction idea's tucked away, otherwise I think your project is doomed!

Regards
Bandil

[Lestat]

no, i screwed up. What I was actually thinking would be to replace one hydroxyl on the hydroquinone with -NH2 giving hydroxyamphetamine, then removing the remaining hydroxyl to leave amphetamine base. I am totally new to this, I do have some (not too good) chem. experience but this seems like a good possible start point to me.

Is it workable at all, or just a stupid n00b idea?

[Barium]

Changing one -OH in hydroquinone to a -NH2 will just give you p-OH-anilline. Just out of curiousity, how would you perform this conversion?

[Lestat]

That's what i wasn't sure about, my chemistry experience isn't that great, pretty much limited to high school and some pyrotechnics, but I am just starting to try and learn about drug chemistry, I got the idea from the list of possible precursors on rhodium's site.

[ApprenticeCook]

that would make p-aminophenol not to usefull for much in the way of drug chemistry. it would not be an amphetamine at all...

best bet would be to read books on chemical structures and reactions, even rhodiums site has an expected knowledge level.

[Nicodem]

Maybe you simply confused amphetamine with acetaminophen (N-actyl-p-hydroxyaniline). Check again the structures of amphetamine and p-hydroxyaniline and take a good laugh about your idea:
Amphetamine: C6H5-CH2-CH(NH2)-CH3
p-hydroxyaniline: HO-C6H4-NH2

[Lestat]

Yep, a spectacular example of the error commonly known as a stupid fuck up...
Well I'm totally new to anything more complicated than a thermite reaction, I guess this is the place to learn  

quote Barium: Changing one -OH in hydroquinone to a -NH2 will just give you p-OH-anilline. Just out of curiousity, how would you perform this conversion? end quote.

How woul I go about doing this?, and Is there any way to obtain pure aniline from this reaction? It would be more useful to me than hydroquinone anyways...

[Bandil]

I think what Barium was referring to, was the fact that changing an aromatic (or aliphatic for that matter) -OH group to a -NH₂, is not something that can be done easily by any commonly known reactions.

And i'm pretty sure theres no simply way of making aniline from p-hydroquinone. Your better of simply buying the aniline or perhaps making it from nitrobenzene or something akin, but that is somewhat off-topic.

Regards
Bandil

[Lestat]

That's what i really need to avoid, My access to chemicals is rather limited, as is my equipment, There isn't too much to choose from stuff available in the UK   ,
I need to make 99% of the stuff i plan to use.

[Bandil]

Well in that case i'm sorry to say that your spectrum of available target compounds will also be rather limited. For most people the real issue in clandestine chemistry is procuring chemicals and labware in a non suspicious was. So instead on trying all sorts go strange reactions and schemes, which with 99% certanty is going to fail, unless you are an experienced chemist, start simple. Learn some more, procure more equipment, read more etcetc... Once you master the basics, then you can start toying around with the more exotic reactions. Anything else will be a waste of your time and money, as you will not gain any knowledge from failed runs (ie. not understanding what the heck happened).

Regards
Bandil

[Lestat]

SWIM has three ideas for a first synth, 1: tryptamine from caseine ala rhodium, 2: Bisulfite splitting of vitamin b1 (any experiences with this one would be nice) or 3: the ubiquitous crystal meth  

Off topic i know, but which do you reccomend for a budding nutcase/chemist?  

[ApprenticeCook]

like i said, a book is what i think is best for you at the moment, esp if your access to reagents and equip is low your not going to find much help from a somewhat nieve supplier who your asking for something you dont even fully understand yourself...

Meth is somewhat of a ghetto proceedure so that would be the easiest on equip, just got to get the reagents.
Have fun.

[Lestat]

My access to chemicals is not completely awfull, I just can't get all the really neat stuff like DMSO, THF, LiAlH etc... I don't like speed type stuff anymore (not now I have a kid due to speed). Does anyone have any experience with clomethiazole?

[Edit]
Not to mention I don't particularly like any reaction that could possibly form phosphine, which I've heard that meth can do if it goes wrong?

[ApprenticeCook]

You can form alot worse in other reactions if it goes wrong...

Not to mention explosion risks. But hey, all in a days work.

[Lestat]

I wasn't aware that things came much worse then phosphine.
Explosions I don't particularly mind, hell i used to specialize in them    

I think SWIM will probably go with the meth first then, are ephedrine nasal drops suitable for the process? 'cos that's all SWIM can get round here  

[ApprenticeCook]

check the ephedrine content.

Usually pills are the best but theres been some work done on syrups / drops etc UTFSE.

[ning]

Acetaminophen does have its uses  

Pills? From the word I heard in the stimulants forum, making meth might be a little more fun than you're looking for as a first project, what with all the new gaks and stuff.

Aniline is probably best made from toluene, by permanganate oxidation to benzoic acid, followed by conversion to benzamide with urea or ammonia and hofmann rearrangement. At least that's probably a good method for those with limited resources.

Reduction of nitrobenzene would be fun too, I'm sure.

And what do you want aniline for? Synthetic opiates? Diazotization or sandmeyer reactions?

Probably making GHB or something would be a good first synthesis.

[Lestat]

Well I wanted the aniline for a rather unrelated pyrotechnics experiment i read about, but now that you say it can be oxidised into benzoic acid, or benzamide, could it be made into benzene? because its well nigh impossible  to actually buy, what with it being labeled the nasty evil carcinogen from hell and all.

[grellobanans]

How about a Reimer-Tiemann Reaction on the p-hydroquinone to get the aldehyde, that would be closer to what you want, but you'd want to use plain phenol then

Wowiee, swim hasn't been here in so long!