HCl bubbler / generator

[majic22]

Methyl Mans Al/Hg write up calls for a HCl bubbler.  swim is not familiar with this but he will have to become familiar with it as this is the method he chose to try.  He did a search and the only remotely helpful thing found was the write up by psychokitty (shown below).  however, he is still confused about the concept of this thing.  ie. how it works and what the setup looks like.  Does any bee know of a website or location that swim could see pictures or at least read about one?  thanks

psychokittys write up is post

Post 16801 (missing)

(savestheday: "Re: HCL Bubbler in MM Al/Ag", Newbee Forum)

[Rhodium]

Have you ever tried my site?

https://www.thevespiary.org/rhodium/Rhodium/chemistry/equipment/calcium.hcl.generator.html

[DjTime]

I don't want to scare anyone away from the whole HCL
generator, but get ready for some fuckin PAIN brother!!
To SWIM this is the worst part, althought the MOST
satisfying. Swim has tried all kinds of fancy- schmansy
setups to use. SWIM even went as far as to buy all kinds
of stuff from the hardware store to build his own. He used
2 new paint cans, some plastic tubing, and some pipe
fitting along with some rubber and silicone sealent. NOPE
that shit didn't work for SHIT!!! the HCL gas ate the sealer
and sent a cloud of gas down my throat and then sent me
running for the door for some good air. I learned my lesson
that HCL gas rusts EVERY FUCKIN thing metal, and hurts
like hell when you breath it in. So now SWIM wears mask
plus gloves. SWIM  uses kinda sorda the Rhodium method
but still looks at it ghetto style. It's funny it seems to me the
most ghetto setup, yet it works the best. Anyways SWIM
did an Al/Hg about two weeks ago and THOUGHT it failed
and so SWIM tossed it. Then again tonight SWIM did it
again. And to SWIMs utter suprise after 15 minutes of gas
not but like a few specs. So SWIM was about to toss it out
and then SWIM's freind was on SWIMs ass to go get some
food so SWIM just left it alone and the while SWIM was
eating he realized that he should turn up the gas and that
maybe it wasn't getting enough to react. So when SWIM got
home he cranked the gas FULL throttle, we're talkin like the
sulfuric was gushing from the addition funnel, and BAM!!!!
I had never seen a full beaker precip like that before, I mean
in like 7 seconds the WHOLE beaker was a swamp of xtls!!!
4 gassings later SWIM had his highlest yeilds yet!!! 20.44G
And his solution still has some gassings to come, it hasnt
even turned a color yet, no brown, no yellow, still crystal
clear. SWIM's setup messed him up, the foam started to
come over so SWIM stopped it and will resume tommrow.
Peace Out-

[majic22]

DjTime:  " SWIM  uses kinda sorda the Rhodium method
but still looks at it ghetto style."

are you talking about the link that rhodium listed above?

[nitrous351]

psychokitty's writeup is good, but a little too ghetto for swim. There is a much better way to make a gasser out of glassware you should already have.
    what you need:
A round/flat bottom flask with 2 necks (or one neck with a
       claisen.
A dropping funnel
A packable column
An air inlet adapter (this looks like a sep funnel stopper with a hose nipple and a glass stopcock  on one end- you can get them without stopcocks, but the ones with stopcocks are better)
Some polyethylene tubing
A hollow glass rod
Sodium Chloride (NON-IODIZED!!!!)
Muriatic acid
Sulfuric acid
Drierite (sp?) or another suitable drying agent

     Method:
Charge your flask with NaCl. How much you put in depends on how much you need to gas. SWIN never puts in a measured amount though... he just guesses.
Now, just wet the NaCl with the muriatic acid. Bee sure not to make any puddles in the flask... you just want to dampen the salt.
Charge the dropping funnel with some sulfuric acid, and attach the funnel to one neck in the flask. Don't drip anything in yet!!
Fill your packable column with Drierite, and fit the column into the other neck of the flask.
Now attach your inlet adapter tube to the top of the column (make sure the stopcock is OPEN).
Attach a length of polyethylene tubing to the hose nipple on the inlet adapter.
Now fit your hollow glass tube on the other end of the tubing (obviously you may have to do some work to find hollow glass and polyethylene tubing that fit snugly together... at any rate, you should have a tight seal between the polyethylene tubing and the hollow glass tube)

    How to gas:
Put your solution to be gassed in a beaker. Place the beaker on a magnetic stirrer set on a pretty low RPM. Insert the hollow glass tube into the solution to be gassed. SLOWLY start dripping the sulfuric onto the muriatic-dampened NaCl. You should see HCl gas evolving. Watch it swirl around and climb up the drying tube, where it becomes anhydrous HCl gas. Watch it flow into the beaker where it turns your (not)freebase into the hydrochloride salt! Leap for joy and cry tears of happiness! As soon as the forming crystals aren't white anymore (they may start to turn tan or pinkish), it's time to stop gassing.
      To stop gassing:  Turn off the dropping funnel. Do NOT turn off the stopcock at the inlet adapter! Take the hollow tube out of the solution. This is where it gets messy/dangerous. There's still going to be gas in the flask, and it's going to have to go somewhere. Make sure it's not in your face, or onto anything metal. It's best to gas in a VERY well ventilated area-- like under a really good fume hood. But, if you don't have access to one, find a big empty field somewhere.
Hope this helped someone...peace

PS- or you could skip the gassing bullshit and just titrate...

[MisterWize]

Mw has read many ways of gassing but surely , the easiest, providing the chemicals are available, it dripping HCl over Conc. Sulphuric acid.

I don't think it needs drying either as the Sulphuric takes up all the water from the acq. HCL.

Mw

[Osmium]

Take a PE plastic bottle, put in some salt, squirt some H2SO4 on top and quickly close it with its lid with a short lenght of plastic (preferably teflon) tubing connected to it. Now squeeze the bottle and HCl gas will come out of the tubing.

Stick it into your gassing solvent, squeeze the bottle, pull the tubing out of the gassing solvent, and let some air back in. Repeat a few dozen times. If HCl generation ceases, shake the bottle, or add more H2SO4.
This is the easiest, fastest, and cheapest way to generate small amounts of HCl, it doesn't require glassware and everything is OTC. Not suitable for several hundred gram batches, but perfect for those small scale dreams.

[MisterWize]

Q.) Just out of curiosity Osmium, what would be your suggestion for gassing a larger batch, say the few hundred gram batches?

[Osmium]

[MisterWize]

[halfkast]

You can do it with HCl and foil if your in a hurry I think. I don't know what the downsides are, I've never tried it.

The next best preparation as far as OTCness and ease is this:
Anhydrous Hydrogen Chloride Gas from Hydrochloric Acid and Calcium Chloride
You can find it at Rhodiums internet site.

Don't have Calcium chloride (CaCl2) but DO have calcium carbonate (CaCO3) and HCl solution?
Here: CaCO3 + 2 HCl ==> CaCl2 + H2O + CO2


Any method including H2SO4, especially concentrated is not worth a cent to a lot of Oz bees, the work outweighs the benefits of the desired method.

P.S. Rh your did a great job on this html for the CaCl2 HCl generator! Excellent! Do you want to convert your whole site to look like this or were you just playing?

[Rhodium]

Rh your did a great job on this html for the CaCl2 HCl generator! Excellent! Do you want to convert your whole site to look like this or were you just playing?

I hope to be able to convert the entire site to the new format, I've been doing it on an off since the beginning of this year (see

Post 398172 (missing)

(Rhodium: "CSS design of my page - more questions", The Server Room)), but a lot of real-life work between february-september has prevented me from making more than a few dozen re-makes this far (but most new documents on my page is in this new HTML4/CSS-based format).

[neo]

i do know that a ball of aluminum with about 200 ml of muratic acid produces very toxic (DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT BREATHING THIS SHIT..sometimes has black smoke look)..but i have to do the chemistry on this to see if it produces hcl gassing of what is needed...because with gassing..it all depend on ideal gas...temp,volume,percent of conc,rate of absorbtion, and so forth..but physiology is not cared for here..

[Rhodium]

2 Al + 6 HCl -> 2 AlCl₃(aq) + 3 H₂(g) + HEAT

[neo]

thanks rhodium...master of all knowledge.

[halfkast]

Rhodium so the people who have used foil and HCl probably haven't been creating a hydrochloride salt at all?

[Rhodium]

When a hydrochloric acid solution is heated, some hydrogen chloride is driven out of the solution, as the solubility goes down with increased temperature - so while some damp HCl gas is produced, this is really a roundabout way to do it.

[halfkast]

So, I guess heating HCl and passing it through a drying tube is always an option?

[Rhodium]

Instead of only using the calcium chloride to fill your drying tube, put it into really good use:

Post 462211

(Rhodium: "HCl(aq) + CaCl2 -> Hydrogen Chloride Gas", Newbee Forum)

[halfkast]

Of course Rhodium, your right.

It's a much better and smarter use for it.  

[abuse]

...the weight ratio of HCl (35%) and CaCl₂ is 1:1, well, at least according to the write-up they used 100g of HCl and 100g of CaCl₂, so that's how I got 1:1; is that correct?