Morpholine PCP-derivate

[Aurelius]

your best bet would be asking Bwiti or Nemo_Tenetur

[hypo]

hi, xicori. i have no experience at all with cyclidines, but i am
very interested to hear about PCP analogs. i can only give very
general answers.

> why distill off the solvent?
> to increase reactivity? would it also work without distilling
> off the ether and keeping the mixture @ reflux for about 30 hours?

if the text says that 83° is needed for 16h, then it propably is so.
chances are big that the reaction will take an eternety and a half
at 40°.

> - may there be some danger of peroxide explosion (ether is from
> unopened bottle, about 6 months old) when distilling ooff the Et2O?

utfse on ether peroxides. there's everything you need: detection, destruction
and stabilisation.

> - is there any chance to find the boiling point of N-Benzoylmorpholine
> and the PCPm-freebase - please help here when possible?

beilstein crossfire. maybe someone is so kind?

other remarks:

why not use the tosic acid method? tosic acid is very easy to make.
check fallen_angels method:

Post 389646

(Antoncho: "Toluenesulfonic acid - tips and tricks.", Methods Discourse).
what worked very well for me was cooking until everything was dissolved,
adding a (calculated) minute amount of H2O (turning the whole mass into a
solid), recrystallising twice from conc HCl and drying over NaOH.

i think PCPm is a misnomer. it should be called PCM or PCMo.
(there's no more piperidine in it!)

have you thought about extracting piperidine from pepper?
that should be easy with an improvised soxhlet (or
even without) and i think many bees would profit from a
working pepper --> piperidine procedure.

[Xicori]

high hypo!!

thx for the response...

i´ll hope bwiti and others will find their way into this thread

I´ve chosen the Benzoylamine-Method because it can be carried out with nearly every amine, there are no highly toxic chemicals, benzoylchloride is pretty cheap, and the yields are high, etc... i´ll also want to try it because i found no experience-reports on this synthesis in the web...

>if the text says that 83° is needed for 16h, then it >propably is so.
>chances are big that the reaction will take an eternety >and a half at 40°.

i think you´re right Distilling of the ether shouldnt be that a problem, because the residue in the flask shouldnt be completely solid - so the mixture can´t come to complete dryness, making the peroxides detonate... - the ether is also in the original closed bottle, never exposed to air befor, so it shouldn´t be rich of peroxides.... i´ll see

...in our organix chemistry lab @ university ether (from opened bottle) is often evaporated to dryness on the rotovap...with no peroxide explosion yet - so i think the danger of peroxide-explosions isnt that high at all, but shouldn´t be underestimated....

you´re right, PCM is the name to give this compound

Piperidine from pepper isnt that a useful method i think.... the yield is just to low! - better methods would be reducing pyridine elektrochemically - would be great to get some literature concerning that...

>beilstein crossfire. maybe someone is so kind?

indeed if anyone could help out with that! - ive searched @ google, merck chemdat, acros.be, and in the catalogues of many other chem supplliers - without any results...

many thanks,
xicori

[Bwiti]

Exactly how is benzoylpiperidine made? Is benzoyl chloride the same as benzyl chloride?

[hypo]

is the acid chloride of benzoic acid.

[Xicori]

________________________
8.   If piperidine is available, benzoyl piperidine for use in the preparation of pentamethylene bromide (p. 428) may be prepared by direct benzoylation. A mixture of 105 g. of sodium hydroxide (2.6 moles), 170 g. of piperidine (2.0 moles) (b.p. 104–109°), and 800 cc. of water is treated with 280 g. (2 moles) of benzoyl chloride using the apparatus and procedure described above; the temperature is kept at 35–40°. The oily product is separated after dilution with 250 cc. of benzene if necessary (Note 5), dried with a small quantity of potassium carbonate and distilled. The portion boiling at 172–174° /12 mm. weighs 330–345 g. (87–91 per cent of the theoretical amount). The first few cubic centimeters of the distillate may be colored by a reddish impurity, in which case a forerun is collected separately.
________________________

Cahours, Ann. chim. phys. (3) 38, 87 (1853); Schotten, Ber. 17, 2545 (1884); 21, 2238 (1888).

i think tehre shouldnt be any problems applieing this syntheses to other amines!

Post 391039

(Xicori: "New route to PCP´s?", Novel Discourse) - if this would work, it would be another high yielding, universal synthesis for PCP-Like compounds...

[Bwiti]

"i think tehre shouldnt be any problems applieing this syntheses to other amines!"

  Yes! Thanks for sharing that ref.! I wouldn't use piperidine, but some other heavy primary amine should work fine. What about secondary amines?

  Btw, in my dreams, a bear made a schiff base from cyclohexanone/diethylamine, and reacted it with anhydrous p-tosic acid. This was added to a bromobenzene Grignard, reacted for a few hours without applied heat, water/ammonium chloride was added, extracted with non-polar solvent, blah, blah.. But the product was inactive. The bear has also done the same with benzylamine, and this was inactive also.. The bear could have sworn that everything was anhydrous both times, and is very pissed that he wasted his money..

[Osmium]

> ...in our organix chemistry lab @ university ether (from
> opened bottle) is often evaporated to dryness on the
> rotovap...with no peroxide explosion yet - so i think the
> danger of peroxide-explosions isnt that high at all, but
> shouldn´t be underestimated....

It only becomes a problem if the ether is really old, or even standing around in the open for longer times. Since diethylether has such a low boiling point I wouldn't worry too much since it will usually be evaporated before lots of peroxides can form.

THF is a whole other story though! Especially when the THF was used to clean glassware and stored in opened containers. This shit is evil, there have been many accidents. It can kill you, e.g. when rotovapping several liters to be reused for cleaning purposes, and the peroxides collect in the evaporation flask.

[Xicori]

High Bees!

Swim did a FTIR on his samples today... there were two samples:

1.) fine white xtals that seperated out very quickly after cooling from recrystallisation

2.) xtals that crystallized out after a lot of solvent was removed....

The spectra can be seen under

http://members.fortunecity.com/xicori/

Please look at the spectra... what could substance 1 bee??

Substance 2 is definitevly identified   

...there are no peaks for -CN compounds, so swim thinks there shouldnt be any carbonitrile left

the substance will be bioassayed today evening  

Conclusion:
The synthesis works without doubts, but the yield was very low (bad crystallisation method, a lot was lost during recrystallisation)

best wishes
xicori

[Xicori]

Bioassay of PCM (Morpholine PCP derivate):
ingesting form: nasal, PCM.HCl

The substance was snorted in ~25mg dosages every 15 minutes to find the best dosage...

First weak effects were felt with a total of 75mg - it reminded me of Ketamine, but the effects werent as strong as with 75mg of ketamine...

Even at a dosage of ~150mg there was only a slight dissiociative effect, but it wasnt worth the pain when snorting the hydrochloride...

conclusion:
The compound is definetively psychoactive, but the effects werent as strong as ketamine (i had no chance to try PCP yet). - It would be much wiser to use the chemicals to synthesise stronger PCP-like compunds....

best wishes
xicori