The Hive > Stimulants

Failed Birch - Why?

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Xavl2:
The basic set-up:
* 250mL of anhydrous ammonia was condensed in a reaction vessel in dry ice from a tank with excess fumes pumped into HCl through a number of fume/moisture suck back traps.

* The vessel was placed on a magnetic stirrer and 0.8g of Li (one AA battery) was dissolved in the ammonia added via a funnel in the reacttion vessel stopper to prevent moisture condensation on the inside.

* 2g of freebase suzy dissolved in 75mL of toluene was poured in followed by a slow addition of the rest of 6g of suzy.

* The blue was not going away - the mix was allowed to stir for 15min first and then for another unexpected hour as swim had an emergency to attend to.

* After this ammonia was taken off stirrer and allowed to evaporate bubbling through HCl. This took a good 2 hours. It was blue all the way until it was all gone.

Results:
Product was extracted with toluene, filtered/washed, added to a layer of water and small amount of HCl was dripped. The water was separated evaporated to leave white crystals that smoked up and tasted like Suzy!!!

The rest of the toluene was evaporated to see if there was meth oil, but only produced very smelly wet (from some meth oil?) crystals that stunk like some kind of medicine and not susy freebase (so some reaction happened?).

Note1: When suzy was extracted, a tad too much heat was added after freebasing to push suzy into toluene to be extracted and some of it burnt. So the initial feedstock of suzy was yellow but smelled like freebase suzy so swim thought it would be ok.

Note2: Suzy was stored for 5 weeks before use in a dark cold place. Does suzy freebase go off/break down?

Any comments very appreciated. By the way, swims setup produced no smell at all from start to finish since the system was 100% enclosed - about the only thing swim can be proud of in this instance :)

jboogie:
your ratios are way off. a "psudeo-birch" (no pun intended) should bee more like 2 parts Li to 1 part freebase. the hcl will require even more Li.

2g of freebase suzy dissolved in 75mL of toluene was poured in followed by a slow addition of the rest of 6g of suzy.
why didnt you dissolve all the freebase in the np first? did you just dump in the powder after the addition of the first bit in NP? anyways, that would bee a total of 8 gr. of freebase...

The vessel was placed on a magnetic stirrer and 0.8g of Li (one AA battery) was dissolved in the ammonia added via a funnel in the reacttion vessel stopper to prevent moisture condensation on the inside.

and not even a full gram of L1!! what the fuck! so your "reaction" is 1 part (im beeing fair by even calling that one part) Li and 8 parts of freebase. Subpar...
This is why its so important to UTFSE before you waste your time and money. you probably coulda ended up w/some good shit if you learned to research your reaction first. there may have been enough Li to reduce half a gram... better luck next time ;D .

Xavl2:
Hmmm...

Correct swime if swim is wrong but the reduction part of the reaction goes something like this:

Suzy + 2e- -> MA.

Hence for every mole of suzy, 2 moles of lithium is required.

Moles of Suzy used = 8g/165 = 0.48

Mass of lithium = 0.48 x 2 x 6.94 = 0.7g

Swim actually used a slight excess of 8g of suzy that's why swim added 0.8g of lithium.

Any other ideas?

One of swim's theories is over-reduction due to a long cook. Anyone know what the over reduced base smells like?

The other one is that suzy got ruined during extraction or broke down after 5 weeks of storage.

maj:
Why would you use a np solvent to administer into your anhydrous ammonia.  The reaction was stopped with this addition.  Birch with will reduce alchols.  However I beleive the toluene actually 'quenched'  your reaction.  Thus not reduceding your ephedrine to methamphetamine.  But to hey Suzy.  Might be clean enought for ya to do RP/i reaction or hypo.  You cannot over cook a birch you run the reaction till it is done.

Organikum:
You have no hydrogen source in your reaction scheme.
You have to use either the HCl salt of pseudoephedrine or an alcohol (anhydrous, so take IPA or methylalcohol, dry!)
But using the HCl salt is better and easier.

I am not sure about the toluene at all. I GUESS it doesnt matter, but I would leave it away.

A hydrogen source is needed, In the RP/I the HI provides it, in the Birch the HCl of pseudo.HCl or an alcohol when the freebase used. I cant remember to have heard that toluene can be used instead.

Use the HCl salt. Toss it in all at once when you have the blue. Stirring is usually a good idea, but on the small scale you are working a gently swirling of the flask will suffice (DONT SHAKE!), dont forget the gloves though.  :)


Hope this helps
/ORG

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