MDA using Sodium Borohydride via Ammonium Acetate

[cheeseboy]

In using Sodium Borohydride to reduce phenylacetones, methylamine 'gas' must be used (mixing NaOH with methylamine in methanol) This produces MDMA. If one wanted to make MDA instead, could one make Ammonium Acetate 'gas' by mixing an alcoholic solution of Sodium hydroxide and Ammonium Acetate? And could this Ammonium Acetate 'gas' be used as the amine source?
May De Sorce Bee Wit Chu-Always

[slothrop]

Would it be possible to use triethylamine with methylamine hydrochloride och ammonium chloride? If it works (why not?) it would be a nice way of avoiding the trouble of making anhydrous solutions of methylamine or ammonia in methanol.

//Tyrone Slothrop

[Rhodium]

Ammonium acetate + NaOH => sodium acetate + ammonia + H2O

You are making water with that procedure, which is detrimental to the reaction. MDA cannot be made with that method in high yield anyway.

Slothrop: Yes, TEA works in this procedure, see

Post 188868 (missing)

(SuperAssman: "Repost: BzCl ---> meth    (for "Andrew"??)", Stimulants).

[cheeseboy]

Cheese won't be asking questions like this after some good o-chem is under way. Learning chemistry always seemed so boring until it was put in another perspective!
May De Sorce Bee Wit Chu-Always

[patrick]

In fact, you don't need Ammonium Acetate 'gas'. You can just use plain solid AA.
Follow this:

Post 176405 (missing)

(DiethylEtherMan: "NaBH4", Methods Discourse)
I followed this procedure with a lot of errors, based on 50gr ketone, with a yield of 14gr MDA. I have to say that my errors were really BIG.

[LaBTop]

""ChemReack
(Hive Bee)
03-11-01 19:20
No 177974 
Re: NaBH4
Well I doubt that I am one of those well known bees. But I do know this for sure,DEM is credible in my books. And I'll leave it at that. Does that make me a cop now too LT? Fuck I really hate it when other hivers/mods try to ruin the credibility of otherwise credible people.

The hive gave swim his nest egg. Thankyou everyone!""

Ahh, nearly forgot that nasty piece of info!

If you don't have the slightest idea where you'r talking about, cheeseboy, than please refrain from mixing "gasses" with solids. I appreciate when you launch that sort of misfitted thinking in the Newbee forum.

Again, if you are bitching and whining about a known low yielding method, why the fuck did you follow it then?
Ofcourse because you don't have the experience and connections to order more watched chemicals.
So what's the fuzz about?
Be glad you can achieve 30 to max 50% w/w yields with the nearly OTC method described, and if you feel the need to kill the messenger, do it at home and stick a knife in your own brains.

And again, if you can't tweak this reaction to the attainable 80-85% results, stay in your own league. I feel no need to spoonfeed you guys with anything you ask for. LT/
WISDOMwillWIN

[DiethylEtherMan]

LT:

Holy shit, my friend. Nice to see you still around. Just stopping by. Seeing what y'all are up too.

My grandmother tried a few times this MDA route using NH3 (ammonia gas/from the cylinder) and nabh3cn/nabh4, with less than terrible yields. Go the AA route, and deal with the 30-50% yields.

Looks pretty boring around here?

peace.

DEM
If some of us were not so far ahead, the rest of you would not be so far behind!

[cheeseboy]

So sorry Mr. LT. Not all of us bees are experts like you appear to be. Perhaps this should have been in the Newbee forum. But cheese has a feeling your reply would be the exact same anyways. Cheese knows what it feels like to reply to a 'novice' question asked by a rookie, it makes one feel better about one's self. Kind of like a power trip, but only from behind a screen, totally camoflauged from the ones we are talking down to. Cheese will try and do better next time, once again, learning is fun! Even if there are a few BUMPS and JERKS along the way!!
May De Sorce Bee Wit Chu-Always

[LaBTop]

Chees, some of you need now and then a clap on the head, and send back to the Newbee forum, it will only do you good, and when you feel that you have DONE the reaction, and saw things with your own eyes, and CHECKED your results against reliable data, then you are granted access here to talk about your experiences and ask questions, on level with the ones who actually did it.

That's why it's called the METHODS forum, it's not a subdirectory of the Newbee forum, which has btw also a WEALTH of info, go and look how to really start from Sassafras oil f.e.

To succeed in reaching the 'normal' yields for a AA Boro run, you must FIRST have REAL MDP2P.
The majority of cooks come whining here about "bad" amination methods, BECAUSE they did a BAD performic! Or a BAD oxone run. And NEVER EVER checked their oils against easy to find reliable data of their precursor oils and freebases, and used crappy oldfashioned laboratory techniques.

If you want to play with the Pro's, start acting like a Pro, and buy the most necessairy lab equipment, and don't try to cook in pots and pans. If you don't have the money to buy those things, that's nothing to be ashamed of, but don't bather us here then with crappy techniques, untill you have access to real lab gear. LT/
WISDOMwillWIN

[Vibrating_Lights]

Swim would like to add something about people bitching about yeilds. Alot of the members here came here without any knowladge of chemistry whatso ever. Withthe help of the hive and rhodiums site any one can attain the knowladge required to produce their own drugs. What the fuck more can you ask for. Low yeilds is better than no yeilds especially when you are a HS drop out and would otherwise be shining shoes.(not perticularly cheesy but in general)  If you want more product and refuse to learn every possible thing involved, then adapt to your low yeilds and and use 10x more percursers  then your low yeilds get multiplied x10.  You want better yeilds wih MDA  then make the fucking Oxime and reduce it with al/hg in AA/EtOH. Why you want to be using a hydride for MDA anyway got money to burn?
Nescesary Equipment
Vaccume pump
hotplate stirrer
vac distillation set
Pyrex mesuring Cup
And 4 Buckets,one with a lid, if you want it to be worth your while.
VL_

[zooligan]

Rhod, LT,

How ya been?  O.K. I hope.

A few questions for the guys with red user names:

Is the yield really that bad with the method as outlined in that thread (which I believe is close to your MDA/MA/EA procedure from a bit ago, LT...)? 

What is the consensus on the MDA via AA/NaCNBH3 rxn? 

Also, I am a little confused about when to do the acidic non-polar unreacted-ketone-removal step in any boro or cyanoboro recuction.  There seem to be two methods of MeOH removal:  1. You can flood the post-rxn mix (which will be basic) with dilute HCl to convert the amine to salt, or 2. you can distill off the MeOH w/o adding water.

In 1., Do you do your non-polar wash before or after distilling off the MeOH?  Does it matter?

In 2., folks talk about dissolving the solidified AA matrix that remains after distilling off the MeOH in dilute HCl and proceeding with the non-polar wash there.  If they don't boil the rxn dry, how can they be sure there's no MeOH left?  If they do boil it dry, how can they be sure they're not evapping their freebase amine?

Any clarifications would be most helpful...

z
"No one can build his security upon the nobleness of another person." -- Willa Cather