Ok Guru's, answer this one......

[Giver_Hell]

SWIG got a question for you,,,SWIG has read reports that pure methamphetamine such as DESOXYN does not produce a rush or front door as one might think. It's a more cleaner, smoother high than compared to homemade stuff which has more rush and tweekiness to it. A person that tries pure dope might be dissappointed to find that it didn't have the "kick" that their accustomed to.

SWIG further recalls reading that the birch style produces a more potent product over other methods because it fully converts the E to meth. from its powerful reductive nature.

Now the second paragraph contradicts the first one would you think? If pure methamphetamine produces no rush or front door then why does the birch produce a product that will drop one to his knees?

[Rhodium]

Society for the Punctuation-Challenged

(http://www.thelawlers.com/FTP/Punctuation.pdf)

[Giver_Hell]

SWIG must have slept through English class the day the teacher was educating the class about proper punctuation.

[jemma_jamerson]

pure gear is better, and PURE crystal meth wont give you the poisonous jilt that you seek but will give you the end experience of a better experience

so fuck cut gear and fuck the attitude that pure meth is not better than your acetone wet back yard gear impurities

or fry and die asshole  

[DrLucifer]

HEY, whats wrong with cooking in the backyard?  
Youd be surprised at how many addicts are seeking that dirty, poisonous jilted rush!
Maybe they think toxins are the only thing capable of overcoming their tolerance?!  

[jemma_jamerson]

if you saw a photo of me you would see that im massive i train 3 days a week at the gym, and still tweak in moderation (pure and sleep on the shit)

i will be shooting up at 90

where do you think these back yard fryed fucks will bee at 90?

fucking dead, hahahahah fuck them, and dirty gear

[Giver_Hell]

SWIG is not debating whether pure meth is better than my "acetone wet back yard gear impurities." SWIG know pure is better. All SWIG wants to know is why the birch produces a more converted end product and has the rush to go along with it? Since the birch make a purer product then SWIG thinks that it should have less rush to it like Desoxyn.

[jemma_jamerson]

Ascending the contrivance of the mind lol

well think about it, what mkes a product a more pure product, reagents conversion your lab skills, obviously if you get a jilt you not going to be having pure meth, and any method that produces an inferiour product is going to either be your reagents or lab skills

what the fuck pure meth is putre meth you either make it, otr you dont, i dont understand your question

[Giver_Hell]

Let SWIG rephrase the question.
Ok pure meth=no rush
  birch meth=rush
  birch meth=fully converted epedrine=less by-products=less
  impurities=(or should equal)pure meth

The birch reduction has less impurities than compared to other style reductions.

The birch reduction is more likely to have a more fully converted end product(which equals higher potency) vs. other forms of reductions.

If both the statements are correct, then why does the dope from a birch have rush to it? One would think that dope from a red cook, being that it produces more by-products than the birch and doesn't convert the ephedrine fully like the birch, would produce more of a rush.

Does this clear up the question any?

[unionpacific]

I don't know about the people you associate with but the people I conversate with only like clear recrystallized gear (the bigger,thicker shards the better but small sized shards are fine) this gear has to melt down and recrystallize with no funky color.  Some of them find intrest in the uncut cleaned/raw white powder, they judge taste, effect and comedown (if any) it doesn't take much to please the brain.

jemma: why do you stereotype all "wetbacks" produce msm cut crank in they're backyard? I don't know your sources but don't jump to conclusions so fast.

also did you know jenna jameson actually smoked methamphetamine before?  how sexy huh? I'm glad she got off it and kept her carreer(sex) on her mind.

[Osmium]

> The birch reduction has less impurities than compared to other style reductions.

Says who?

> The birch reduction is more likely to have a more fully converted end
> product(which equals higher potency) vs. other forms of reductions.

Are you sure?

> why does the dope from a birch have rush to it?

Because tweakers are notoriously unreliable test subjects, they snort/inject/smoke way too much (especially those that tend to differentiate between different kinds of 'chili', 'mmmeth' 'shards' and 'smurf dope' 'rocket fuel') and do not give a shit and totally disregard the countless other factors that might influence their experience.

> dope from a red cook, being that it produces more by-products
> than the birch

Doesn't mean that the end product will be less pure, or does it?

> Does this clear up the question any?

No, not at all.

[Unobtainium]

The purity of your meth is directly proportionate to your clean up skill level. The method of production is irrelevent.

I don't know why everyone is looking for a way to produce perfectly pure meth since you're never going to escape doing a post batch cleanup no matter which method you use, unless you just don't give a shit about perfection in which case you deserve nothing better than the raw sludge you produce.

[Red_Crown]

To say that "all of the ephedrine is reduced to methamphetamine" is not the same as "there is pure methamphetamine."  With the former, there can be excess reagent, or products resulting from various side-reactions that have no more business with the meth molecule.

The particular impurity is what matters to the rush...Let's say:
Pharmaceutical-grade = Meth HCl (no rush)
Via 'Other' reduction = Meth HCl + A + B + C (no rush)
Via Birch = Meth HCl + D (rush)

Which substance appears to cause the percieved rush?  D,  even though that mechanism yields fewer impurities.

If it were possible to purify 100% perfectly, all procedures would produce identical product.

[unionpacific]

Unob: "you're never going to escape doing a batch cleanup no matter which method you use, unless you just don't give a shit about perfection in which case you deserve nothing better than the raw sludge you produce. "

hahaha excellent. If you don't give a fuck about your lab techniques then your final product doesn't give a fuck what your associates think of it.

You guys DO remember methamphetamine hcl (even if it's gaaked up and half un reduced) is still a fairly strong stimulant. (unless you really fucked up at some point in the synthesis) practice makes perfect even geez and other beez will tell you this.

Os nailed it when he menchined tweekers arn't reliable test subjects.  Simply because when a strong stimulant hits the brain most tweekers could care less about the roots of the product and what the product went through before it got into the glass dick.

[baalchemist]

Birch reduction produces a racemic mix of both meth isomers.(one being far less potent than the other)
Rp/I reaction produces only the more potent of the two meth isomers. Based on those facts, birch product is outgunned from the get go. So your theory of the birch producing the best product is quite flawed.

[deadman]

Isn't the racemic mix supposed to be more desirable for a number of reasons,(UTFSE), and wouldn't this lend credibility to Giver-hell's idea that the birch makes better dope? I think she/he is asking a reasonable question and despite yourselves you have answered it. Tell me if i'm wrong.

[Red_Crown]

The d- isomer is much more centrally active.. and in the right places. You can buy the l- form OTC in the US. Snort that whole "levmetamfetamine" inhaler to the head and you'll know why d- is better..

Nonetheless, a ~70:30 dextro:levo mixture is said to be ideal (-if Hive-trolling memory serves correctly), with the l- serving some neuroprotective and otherwise auxilliary purpose.

[auntyjack]

The potency is not the issue, it is the quality of the high  produced by the racemic mix which is apparently quite different from the d isomer...there has been alot of talk to the effect that the racemic mix is better ....it would seem as though this person is experiencing the same phenomenon...

[Giver_Hell]

Some may or may not have read this article before but I'll post it anyways. It compares the Birch and HI/RP reductions. This article, along with some others, is where SWIG came up with the idea that the birch produces a more clean, potent product over the HI/RP. See where it states that the birch reduction had "no intermediates detected." Any comments?

http://www.forensics.com.au/sections.php?op=viewarticle&artid=21

[Red_Crown]

The precursor used in the article is not pseudoephedrine/ephedrine but N-methylephedrine, which has a dimethylamino group rather than methylamino.
In the two "cognate" (related) reactions there is never methamphetamine produced, but ~dimethamphetamine.    

They likely couldn't get clearance to make methamphetamine  ('officially' anyways). But either way, strictly-speaking, however true/false their conclusion may be, it does not follow from their experiment.