firework ingrediants-- redP

[Pheno_Queen]

SWIM was messing around eariler today and decided to take apart some fireworks that were laying around the house.  One of the fireworks happened to be those little fountains about the size of M80's that spout two or three different colors.  Once the paper outside was peeled off there were 4 layers, gunpowder in the bottom, a courser black powder above that, then a grayish silver compressed powder surrounded by black powder, and finally, a redish compressed powder at the top.  I was wondering if this redish powder might happen to be red phosphorus? I know that it has been talked to death about the existence or non-existence of RP in fireworks but from all the posts I've found no one seems to have said anything about this particular type of firework.  As far as I know it may just be clay, I have no idea, any info or suggestions as to how to test and see if it is would be much apperciated.

[gsus]

ok i'm not an expert in fireworks, but if it dissolves in water, acid, or alcohol it is definitely not P. not that P will dissolve in anything, i'm saying try dil. HCl. maybe it won't explode when you do. very unlikely that it is P anyways. guessing Fe2O3. if its clay nothing will happen if you take a blowtorch to it.

[8ball]

It could be red oxide which is used for colour in some fireworks.

[SHORTY]

Just place a small amount iodine on the powder and if it reacts then it is almost definetly rp.

If it is then how many of those will you need to make a gram of rp?  Just curious cause i have looked for rp in fireworks in the past without much luck.

[Ganzas2003]

i dont know about u there but here where swig lives there are some "almost extinct" old factories of fireworks and other piro...

yellow pages ...i mean the real book was very helpfull for swig.

RP is used in "pirotecniques"

so check in your place and surroundings if there arent any of those old factories...

for a kilo bought without any problem it is worth to do a 300 km trip.

just a thought swig wants to share.

anyway your fireworks may contain RP but if its those with colours it will certainly have much more stuff there. cant really help u to extract it but if u find that RP is there then do some search.

i really cant say something like "put iodine if reacts then its RP" although this can be true...but iodine only react with RP?...

[livid]

approximatly one year ago, all wholesale pyro chem suppliers in the u.s., were paid a visit by the d.e.a., all records of rp sales were seized. also, pyro guys often mix their chems. oxidizers like potassium percolate are mixed with 600 mesh aluminum for flash powder. wood meal is used for a filler in aireal outdoor applications. my point being, if you find rp in something, it is probably mixed with something else, and extraction attempts without some pyrotechnic chem knowledge could bee fatal. if you still feel like messing with it, at least spray static- gaurd on yourself, spray static-gaurd on a news paper, and do your work there.

[DrLucifer]

Livid, I was under the impression that commercially made flash powder was comprised of 400mesh Al powder...That is the case in Australia at least, but i would have thought that pyros would want optimal performacnce out of their product so the finer grade makes sense...although, you seem to know your fireworks so i may be wrong

[SHORTY]

My suggestion of adding a little iodine to it was meant to quickly see if it would be worth pursuing.  I was also talking about minute amounts like 100mg of each.  Surely that is not any more dangerous than doing a 10g rxn.  If it reacts and you have enough of those fireworks to obtain a reasonable amount then you might proceed with an extraction.  Rp can be exposed to a number of solvents and acids without being destroyed so surely there would bee a way to get it clean enough to use.  Look at all the shit in striker pads.

[Buckshot]

ypu mix it with some iodine crystals homemade or whatever as long as they dry or ostly dry, if it smokes your pretty much laughing.

AND IF IT DOES WORK, in the name of science, and good karma you should post in detail the results- type/cost of firework, how much rep phosphorus in them, how hard and fast did it fire up?  Stuff like that.

[Unobtainium]

You'll have better luck finding gold inside of a firework.

[EvilMadChemist]

[Pheno_Queen]

I tried adding iodine crystals and then a few drops of water... nothing.  Oh well, I guess it was a long shot anyways.   Back to spending days cutting the strike strips off of cases of matchbooks.

[TheMaster]