The Vespiary

The Hive => Methods Discourse => Topic started by: Rhodium on February 12, 2001, 03:08:00 AM

Title: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: Rhodium on February 12, 2001, 03:08:00 AM (

Comments? Additions? (

Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: obituary on February 12, 2001, 03:14:00 PM
looks good, but it would be nice if summaries would take place to cut down on numbers of articles on your site.  (summarize the stuff thats been around a while)
Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: LaBTop on February 12, 2001, 04:25:00 PM
Looks good? Looks fantastic !

I fell in love with nr 8, Alumina/Sodium, especially the continuous operation, the moment I saw it. That's a totally new one to me.
The extensive instructions in the patent, how to prepare the catalyst,  makes that an easy one.

And the 1-Butanol + 4M KOH in conventional reflux 15 minutes, 99% conversion, in nr 9, that's a fine one too.

Nr. 7, solventless PTC variation is covered here in my sticky thread extensively, it originated from a Osmium post last year. LT/

PS: Yes, I agree, there are some really old techniques covered on your fine site, which can send newbees hayward, if they didn't grab the more recent posts on those various methods.
Some cleaning up wanted, but I realize it is a lot of work for you, and you seem to be a buzybee. ;D LT/

Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: Rhodium on February 13, 2001, 06:25:00 AM
Summarize? Do you mean merging the separate documents covering several methods of doing the same thing into review articles like the one above? I will not remove anything from my page though, if the method isn't proven NOT to work.

If you give me detailed suggestions on how to improve my site, I'll be very glad. I am planning to turn all the documents into HTML format, to facilitate easy reading and to ensure that I get more hits from my own and third-party search engines. (

Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: obituary on February 13, 2001, 05:50:00 PM
a good way to summarize would be  by drug chemical family (as in chemical structure not pharmacological type)
(dissociatives-don't know how to call them)
THC- relatives
then for precusors list them into chemical families
alkyl halides
oxidizing/reducing agents
2,5-sub pattern chems
3,4,5-sub pattern chems
allyl compounds

(obviously this isn't detailed description as you called for, but obit. didn't think that the suggestion would be backed up by any other bees so obit is not prepared)
Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: LaBTop on February 13, 2001, 09:05:00 PM
Yep, not so clear what I meant in my PS.
ALL contributions to your site should have the original posting date in it, so we can see if it is a really old method, which has been covered more recently with some improvements or additions.
These improvements could be linked to there at the bottom then with that nice addy from Lili like

Post 123456 (missing)

(Stonium: "Re: Kitty, where are you, miss you dearly....", Newbee Forum)
. They have the date automatically mentioned.
We can much easier attent you to these improvements when you have converted all of them in HTML, and then you can use ev. the HTML posts in the forums here, or doesn't that work?
;) That will improve page hits to your and our site! ;)
An example :
The One Pot Methamphetamine ICE post there is not the same as the latest one. See sticky thread. Made some small but essential changes.
Sorry, it's all in the edit mode done, so you get no new postdate or (1) behind the posts in the forum. Many other edits have been made to those One Pots lately.
The Big scale Leuckart should read instead of 90°C : 60-65°C. That could save some experiments.
Yes, should have mentioned it earlier, but every time I forget it again.
You mentioned the intention to place the sticky thread up there on Rhodium's, asked me if I could convert it to HTML (wtf, it's allready HTML, but a la) so Zooligan offered to get it done, never heard anything from that project anymore. I don't have the skill for it.
In that thread are many improvements to f.e. One Pot Boro methods and Classic performic.
And there will come more for the AA and NH3 ones, I promise.
Btw, am working on it now to get the formatting right again, during many software glitches that has been somewhat chaotic returned from the database.
And working methods, whatever yield, should stay there forever. LT/

Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: Rhodium on February 14, 2001, 12:17:00 AM
Obit: Okay, I have now divided my precursors section into "Organic" and "Inorganic" precursors, which will hopefully help the navigation somewhat.

LabTop: I can not use the HTML code from the Hive at my page, as we use different layout schemes (My layout will become more and more consistent, and will all look like the Safrole Isomerization Review when I'm done with them.

Other changes:

* Updated the ICE synthesis document at my page from the one in your sticky thread
* Added Sunlight's 10% MeNH2 preparation from your sticky thread.
* Changed the distillation temp for methanol to 60-65°C in your huge scale Leuckart writeup.

Other than that, you need to specifically tell me what needs to be updated, and preferably send the writeups to me separately method by method, as I have no idea what you have changed and what you have not. I don't have the time to check your sticky thread and compare what's written there word by word with the docs on my page, but if you continuously inform me of updates (Not just "the sticky thread is updated", but more like "In step 5 of the bla blah method, the amount of solvent has been changed to 50ml"). (

Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: LaBTop on February 14, 2001, 05:10:00 AM
Thanks for the updating, and you will get the next ones as you proposed, boss.  ;)  LT/ 

Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: foxy2 on February 14, 2001, 06:29:00 AM
You are the man!!!
Your site seems to be growing exponantially these days.
I am continually amazed.
:)  :)  :)

Do Your Part To Win The War
Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: Rhodium on February 14, 2001, 03:48:00 PM
I counted to 63 new links this month on the chemistry archive page alone (it's only on that page I bother to add that "New" icon). I also installed a javascript which automatically removes that icon from the page when the link has been there for a month or more.

I am open to other suggestions - let yourself loose! (

Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: Rhodium on March 15, 2001, 02:47:00 PM
Other than the first route, the other methods aren't ranked in a special order. (

Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: psychokitty on March 19, 2001, 04:30:00 PM
The biphasic NaOH-water-toluene-alkene-PTC-stirred-under-80-deg-C reaction does not work on isosaf_ole.  SWIM tried this reaction by the book but stirred and heated for 12 hours!!!  The oil so obtained was assumed to be the real McCoy and used in a modified performic reaction.  End product from 100 g of suspected isosaf_ole?:  85 g of saf_ole and some tar.  No ketone of ANY kind which lends proof that the modified performic only works well on isoalkenes.  Anyway, the saf_ole was then isomerized as per usual under anhydrous conditions using reduced amounts of PTC and KOH stirred between 80-120 deg C for about 15  minutes.  Yield: about 90% isosaf_ole, which when used in a modified performic reaction, yielded 55% of the ketone, which when used (25 g) in a nitro-Al reductive amination, yielded 16 g of desired amine HCl.

Title: Re: Safrole Isomerization Review
Post by: Osmium on March 24, 2001, 02:08:00 PM
> Comments? Additions?

In the vac reflux isomerisation it says don't use more than 800ml in a 1L flask. That's wrong.

1.) For 800-1000ml use a 2L flask
2.) Bigger reactions than that have the tendency to bump violently, apparently magnetic stirring isn't good enough anymore.

(For our industrially oriented bees: using a capillary to introduce a stream of air bubbles, comparable to good oldfashioned vacuum distillation should work to circumvent the batch size limitation).