The Vespiary

The Hive => Tryptamine Chemistry => Topic started by: adroit_synth on January 12, 2004, 11:54:00 PM

Title: Psilocybin Production
Post by: adroit_synth on January 12, 2004, 11:54:00 PM
SWIM has used the search engine and is currently reading through the large volume of posts and figured he would give posting his thoughts/questions a whirl. Flame if you must.

SWIM is planning to take on the task of producing his own psilocybin and has some questions for someone with experience and is looking for criticism of his current thoughts.

1. Is mycelium the way to go for trips? SWIM is aware that some carpophores still need to be fruited to produce more spores from time to time, but the demand for fruiting would be considerably lower if he could obtain the hallucinogen from the mycelium. He is under the impression this method is fast and easy, comparatively.

2. He sees things online that would help greatly (a humidity and gas-exchange controlling unit for example), but he wonders if the bees here do not have comparable or better-yet methods and procedures for controlling such variables. He also wonders of the legality of purchasing said materials. Possibly materials with no spores is safer? Of course none of this is ordered by the grower or sent to the grow site.

3. He knows that B+ or Psilocybe Cubensis is the least difficult strand to grow. Thus, he will start and learn with that species. However, he looks forward to moving on to more potent and more difficult to cultivate strands.

4. When does sterility become a factor? He knows the spores are very resilient, that they can take abuse. Do they always have to be sterile, like for storage? What condidtions of the grow room promote harmful bacterial growth in the fungus?

5. In conclusion, and most importantly, what are the bees' tried and true best and/or most simplified means of cultivation? PF technique in individual jars? Colonizing jars with mycelium? Fruiting shit loads of the fungus in large containers? What definitely fucks everything up?

SWIM will continue reading everything he can find that he thinks might pertain and is eager to hear some bees' opinions.


Title: Psilocybe
Post by: hest on January 13, 2004, 12:40:00 AM (

The Mycelium is too week, eating 10g don't doo much, go for the fruit. The humm. is important, use a perlite system. Start with PF system, then inculate big amount's of rye in alu-pans.
Or by som salicylaldehyde,Sodiumazide, Bromoaceticacidmethylester and oxalylchloride
Title: Mycelium
Post by: adroit_synth on January 13, 2004, 01:03:00 AM
SWIM should have included this but he was planning on extracting the active principles from the mycelium rather than just ingesting it. He was looking at this method for speed and simplicity, but he still could be barking up the wrong tree.

Or by som salicylaldehyde,Sodiumazide, Bromoaceticacidmethylester and oxalylchloride

...your suggesting using this as the medium for fruiting? Do other nutrients need to be added?

Title: WPOTW candidate
Post by: Vitus_Verdegast on January 13, 2004, 01:30:00 AM
I *highly* doubt that any living organism could survive on the above mixture of chemicals. I mean, these aren't exactly appreciated for their nutritional value  :P .

(It is used for the synthesis of psilocin of course..)

Title: Synthesis, of course.
Post by: adroit_synth on January 13, 2004, 08:51:00 AM
SWIM is quite ashamed he didn't notice the above chems were for synth, somtimes he get's a one-track mind, and it was around 3 in the morning with no chemical assistance.  :(

Ok then bees, would it be much less hassle to cut out the middle man and just make the molecule? SWIM doubts this as he feels tryptamine synthesis is over his head. He's trying to learn as fast as he can. Let's say it takes him a month to learn how to grow and maybe two or three to learn how to synth it as he is familiar with the chemical, just has no practical experience in making it himself. He still cannot see how the synth would be feasable for him or advantageous over the fruiting b/c he can get everything needed for fruiting and assumes the chemicals and equipment needed for manufacture of a tryptamine would be very hard for him to get ahold of, not to mention the skills and discipline.

He has large amounts of melatonin that he believes he can extract with reasonable purity.Any fairly simple route to a hallucinogen here? 5-MeO-DMT perhaps? Dimethylating the 5-MeO-T is the only thing he does not kow how to do as of now. HE knows all of the info for it is here and merely needs the time to educate himself and find the chems.

Title: *lol*
Post by: hest on January 13, 2004, 08:55:00 AM

...your suggesting using this as the medium for fruiting? Do other nutrients need to be added?

Sorry, but you gave me the laguh of the hour, no not as a medium. The Hive is a bord for chemistry, so it was the ingridient to make the synth of psilocybin. sorry

Title: amusement
Post by: adroit_synth on January 13, 2004, 11:15:00 AM
SWIM is glad he can make an adickt laugh for he has nothing else to contribute to the hive as of now. :)  He simply was not thinking. :P

SWIM has registered with shroomery bulletin boards and is gaining a wealth of knowledge. He continues to diligently read all pertaining threads found here as well and has learned alot in the past few days from them.

Title: If you're REALLY interested
Post by: paranoid on January 13, 2004, 03:45:00 PM
Probably this would be the single most simple and efficient way.

Post 279461 (

(Zen: "Zen and the Art of Hydroponic Mycology", Tryptamine Chemistry)

Title: EXTREMELY interested
Post by: adroit_synth on January 13, 2004, 05:12:00 PM
SWIM assures you that he is extremely interested.

Usually when he is logged into the hive he has 2-4 windows open and is reading about 3 or more different things. He is fascinated as hell by chem and this sort in particular of course. He has realised that he is spreading himself too thing and decided to focus quite a bit more on a chosen topic to achieve greater understanding in less time. That topic is mycology. It recieves the majority of his attention by far now rather than reading anything that interestes him or catches his eye.
The above mentioned stretch of attention is what caused the above error regarding the precursors as a medium for he was thinking about two other things and got confused.

Why can't I reply to the above link on hydroponic mycology?
I referred to the FAQ and this reason for not being able to reply must have slipped my mind
 - You cannot reply to old threads after more than 1 year after the last post as a relatively new user.
My apologies.
end edit

This idea (hydroponic mycology)interests SWIM a great deal and he would like to know production specifics such as active content % by mass and cultivation period, among others.

Title: The link is always at the top of the page
Post by: Rhodium on January 13, 2004, 05:19:00 PM
Why can't I reply to the above link on hydroponic mycology?

Read the FAQ: (

Title: update
Post by: adroit_synth on January 14, 2004, 12:39:00 AM
SWIM's plans will hopefully materialise next week! Much ahead of schedule. 8)  He does not need to order anything online but still wants to in the future to ease the production of the more difficult-to-cultivate strands. He sees now that fruiting is not necessary to maintain constant mycelium propagation, a big help.
He's working on the hydroponic method as well. The biochemistry in that thread was particularly interesting as well as the reasoning for the fungus' hoarding of phosphorous. Interesting. Now he wonders about optimization of alkaloid production either making it more specific or just increasing it all together. He would also like any information having to do with analysing/testing alkaloid content or signs of alkaloid content before harvest.

Title: One step at a time. I'd suggest worrying about
Post by: paranoid on January 14, 2004, 04:01:00 PM
One step at a time.  I'd suggest worrying about getting a good sterile setup rolling first and testing a few batches before trying to tweak alkaloid content.  That being said, there is plenty of heresay and possibly fact regarding boosting alkaloid production in zoomers.  Just check TFSE a bit and you'll come up with some info.

If you seriously plan to go through with this, please keep us updated, as I'm quite curious to hear someone actually attempt this.  It should be relatively easy, and delightfully productive.  Remember, sterility is key!!

Title: indeed
Post by: adroit_synth on January 14, 2004, 09:45:00 PM
Well SWIM is using a modified PF TEK at first rather than the hydroponic method off the bat. He is not as dumb as you guys think. :P  Most of the time, at least.

The Shroomery (

( has helped him more than he had imagined. Tremendous resource for anyone planning to do anything with mushrooms other than trip.
a_s highly recommends it! :)

He was asking about alkaloid optimization and determination for the hydroponic method so he would get started on the right foot b/c when he moves to that method he expects it to bee worth it and live up to zen's claims of it's agressive colonization. He will just start a new thread for that when the time comes. He thinks a few months.

For you myco bees out there that are also do bees, what are your current yields per unit of time and a short description of your setup?

Title: incubation temperature
Post by: adroit_synth on January 21, 2004, 09:59:00 PM
Ok so SWIM has sterilized substrate waiting in the fridge to be warmed up to room temp and innoculated. He read in his book (Psilocybin Production) that optimal temp is 70-75 and higher temps grow faster but have less defense and lowered alkaloid content. He read on the shroomery that the best temp is 86 but no more than 86. Can anyone speak of alkaloid content at diffeent temps? SWIM does not want to exchange potency for a few days time.

Title: Incubation Temperature
Post by: Mr_Bronson on January 22, 2004, 03:53:00 AM
I've inadvertantly allowed the mycelium temperature to rise above 30 C with no problems. Going over 35 C (95 F) will kill the mycelium. Why not colonise the growth medium at 30 C (86 F) and fruit at a low temperature, such as 25 C (78 F) for maximum psilocybin?
Title: maximum psilocybin??
Post by: adroit_synth on January 22, 2004, 06:38:00 AM

Why not colonise the growth medium at 30 C (86 F) and fruit at a low temperature, such as 25 C (78 F) for maximum psilocybin?

and to what evidence do you stake your claims?

Title: Optimal conditions
Post by: Mr_Bronson on January 22, 2004, 03:48:00 PM
I have have read somewhere that lowering the temperature during fruiting increases alkaloid concentration. It does increase crop size. I thought it was on shroomery but cannot find it now. I got the conditions from this excerpt from Paul Stamet's book: (

Title: my bad
Post by: adroit_synth on January 22, 2004, 09:56:00 PM
I was not clear in that last post. I have read that before as well, and agree. I was just making the comment toward those exact temperatures.

My buddy would like to clarify something as well. His main source of magic alkaloids will be from 1q PDY broth jars colonized with mycelium and then extracted. He wold like this to be noted so that further posts in this thread do not speak of maximizing the fruit yeild or getting to fruit faster, or even alkaloid content of the fruit for he has seen much info on this and feels it is fairly well documented. He does not however feel that alkaloid production within the mycelium itself is well documented and misinformation is widespread. For instance, on the shroomery the other day a poor fellow claimed that mycelia produce no active alkaloids! Maybe his didn't but there is alot of others that beg to differ on the valididty of his statement. He would like more info pertaining strictly to the mycelium at this point for it is a more effecient method and he hopes to optimise it. He also hopes to learn more about it and move onto the hydroponic method to achieve alleged agressive colonization.

So let him know all there is to know about the mycelium bees!

Title: Mycelium Extraction
Post by: adroit_synth on January 23, 2004, 10:20:00 AM
Gleened from Psylocybin Production by Adam Gottlieb with additions by me in green
Harvesting and Drying
     The medium of each jar is filtered through a clean funnel cloth. These jars are 1 quart size with PDY broth as medium. The mycelial material is removed from the cloth, placed in a Pyrex baking dish and allowed to dry in the oven at a temperature no greater than 200F. An oven thermometer should be used b/c the temp on the knb may not be accurate. The mycelium should be checked preiodically. When it first appears to be dried, the heat is turned off and it is allowed to cool in the oven. Each jar should yield 50-100g of wet mycelium which is about 90% water, for a dry yield of 5-10g of crumbly material.
      The dried mycelial material is crumbled and pulverised, nd each 100mg of this is combined in a flask with 10ml of absolute methanol. The flask is placed in a hot water bath for four hours. The liquids are collected and saved. The slurry (the mush in the filter paper) is heated two more times in methanol as before. The liquids of the three extractions are combined.
     To be certain that all of the alkaloids have been exracted, a small extraction of a portion of the used slury is tested with Kelle's Reagent (glacial acetic acid, ferrous chloride, and concentrated sulfuric acid). If there is a violet indication, alkaloids are still present and more extractoin is in order.
     In an open beaker the liquids are evaporated to total dryness with a hot water bath or applying a hair dryer. All traces of methanol must be removed. The remaining residue is should contain 25-50% psilocybin/psilocin mixtue.
     Greater purification can be ahieved, but it would require other solvents and chromotagraphic equipment and is hardly necessary. Each 100g of dried mycelium should yield about 2g of extracted material. This should contain at least 500mg of a psilocybin/psilocin mixture or about fifty 10mg doses. Now tell me it is not worth it to cultivate mycelium for the magic!

Title: Man get some books..
Post by: sYnThOmAtIc on January 23, 2004, 05:19:00 PM
I really hope your young. You need to buy "the mushroom cultivator" book. It will help you a lot. It will explain colonization and fruting temps and how they initialize "pinning" otherwise knows properly as primordia. It covers the entire aspect of growing mushrooms in DEPTH, even on a commercial scale. Incubation should also always be done in undisturbed darkness. I am sorry you are just finding the shroomery recently. However, it is not a very good source of info.. It does contain some useful info in general, but I would not attempt any of their teks and expect much success. Any tek or substrate you see that is by ryche hawk is a good one. I really reccomend the 50/50+ casing and the ryche hawk substrates. You realy need a professional mycology book. "The preservation of living fungi" is another good book you shuld buy. It covers how to keep cultures sterile, or make dirty cultures sterile. It also covers storing and preserving culture stocks. Stamets book doesn't cover preservation in depth like this book, but gives you enough info to effectively store cultures for short periods of time.

Good luck.
Title: books
Post by: adroit_synth on January 24, 2004, 02:41:00 PM
SWIM just ordered stamet's book and is awaiting it's arrival. He will buy the other suggestion as well. He would like to add that his method utilizes a rotary vane pump to supply vacuum to dry the mycelium as well as to strip the extract of poisonous solvent. This curbs oxidative/thermal damage to psilocin. Works magnificently fast.

As for the shroomery, I have seen misinformation on there already, but I always seek confirmation on everything before I implement it anyhow.

Title: The point adroit_synth is trying to make is...
Post by: paranoid on January 26, 2004, 01:00:00 AM
The point adroit_synth is trying to make is that he is trying to simply produce mycelia for the purpose of psilocybin harvest.  There is no fruiting involved because there is no desire to produce shrooms.  This is an experiment to gauge the efficiency of psilocybin production via a much simplified and inexpensive method.

As for temperatures, P. cubensis is a semi-tropical species and does well in hot temperatures, but keep it under 30°C for best results.  Don't fuss too much about temperatures yet, but try to keep it consistent.  Again, this is a control experiment - tweak the process after it has a baseline value.

Keep us informed of the results here please, I've been waiting for some time around here for someone to try this!

Title: Exactly!
Post by: adroit_synth on January 26, 2004, 12:01:00 PM
sYnThOmAtIc: I almost forgot. I am young, I just turned 7 yesterday. :o  I hope this makes you feel better about my ignorance or lack of experience. :P

paranoid: It is about time I had someone chime in here on my wavelength! You are precisely right! SWIM now has 4 PF TEK cakes at 84-86F (which everyone claims is the best temperature) and 4 at room temp, 70-75F (which his book, Psilcybin Production and the PF TEK both recommend). He will post his results as soon as colonization time permits. His next experiment will compare the PDY LC method against the BRF substrate at the temp that proves to yield more alkaloids in his ongoing experiment. Anyone interested can look forward to many more similar experiments dealing with ease of production and efficiency, as he plans to optimize and simplify his production methods to facilitate faster magic-mass-production. Anyone not interested can do it their own way and fruit or not at whatever temp, in shit if they want. Just stay off my back for trying to improve things a bit. >:(

Title: i read somewhere that magic alkaloid ...
Post by: Trenchcoat on January 26, 2004, 09:27:00 PM
i read somewhere that magic alkaloid production doesn't start until pinning is initiated. many people have shared your pipe dream. i used to think it'd be a great idea to do a liquid culture in 55 gallon drums and extract from the filtered biomass. haha. the mushroom cultivator says that one study found sclerotia from p. mexicana (strain A) is the most efficient means of producing the biomass. why not grow sclerotia then extract from that. you still wouldn't have to mess with fruiting. fun!

Title: alkaloid production
Post by: adroit_synth on January 26, 2004, 09:58:00 PM
Well as for exactly when it starts, there appears to be some discrepancies. It will not start ever if conditions are not conducive. Or lets say that conditions were good (nutritionally) and then they cease to be so. hmm. This reminds me of what happens when pinning occurs. Where do you suppose the chemicals to make the alkaloids come from at this point? Or why would the organism bother making them for it needs to make spores to propagate now? Well the answer to both, IMHO is that alkaloids are produced almost from the beginning to prepare for propagation. The psilocin acts as a phosphorous storage or carrier molecule increasing the concentration and bioavailability of it for MASSIVE DNA production encompassed within the spore creation stage. Primordia and aborts are known to be more potent. Why would they have the most alkaloids if they just started synthesising them? Well thats probably the way I am goin to feel about it until someone shows me a competent study indicating otherwise. If you could show me where you read this I would be excited to learn from it.

Title: Alkaloid concentration
Post by: Mr_Bronson on January 27, 2004, 01:44:00 PM
Manufacture of a tryptamine for the purpose of phosphorous metabolism seems rather over-complicated. Isn't the main purpose of tryptamines as a nerve-agent against predators?
Title: adroit_synth: Mycelium usually does not ...
Post by: Lilienthal on January 27, 2004, 02:58:00 PM
adroit_synth: Mycelium usually does not produce usefull amounts of alkaloids, that has been shown over and over. Better try to find and read the existing literature before waisting time and resources  :) .

Psilocybin as a phosphate carrier is a funny (but absurd) idea  ;D . Read under the keyword 'secondary metabolites'. It's obvious that such alkaloids are produced as deterrents (e.g. against insect larvae), even if can be difficult to proof that in individual cases.
Title: Fruiting
Post by: Mr_Bronson on January 27, 2004, 04:14:00 PM
It would be interesting to know the trigger for fruiting. Perhaps it would be possible to trigger fruiting in a liquid medium with the correct conditions. Bubbleplate referred to a semi-liquid medium.

Post 484452 (

(Bubbleplate: "Fruiting Mr. Bronson", Tryptamine Chemistry)
Title: Ok
Post by: adroit_synth on January 27, 2004, 06:19:00 PM
That's it. SWIM'll fruit 'em. I suppose what intrigued him most was the idea of having psilocybin/psilocin doses similar to what Hoffman synthed back in the day. I have read reports of Timothy Leary taking the pure psilocin from Hoffman and it seems as though it is a better experience. Perhaps it was the mind that was being altered, but my idea was that the trip was not hindered by other poisons that may be present in the mushroom.

As for the phosphorus carrier idea, I was going off a suggestion in the hydroponic thread that Mr. Bronson posted a link to above. The idea seemed plausible to me but Lilienthal's points seem even more legitimate. I have very little knowledge of why organisms do the things they do and was definitely getting in over my head there.
So there! SWIM's main source of alkaloids will be the carpophores, but he is going to harvest some mycelium to obtain the magic free from many other compounds within the mushroom. He will see first hand if it is a better trip or not. Of course he could just extract the alkaloids from the fruit but he would rather not risk it until further confirmation is seen by him b/c of the inherent loss involved with extraction procedures.

Title: Giving it a try
Post by: Mr_Bronson on January 27, 2004, 08:56:00 PM
adroit_synth: No harm in a couple of experiments. I am currently trying a couple of liquid cultures with different nutrient concentrations just to see what the effect is. Supposed you can control things so that the nutrients run out at some stage, or you cold shock the system or rinse through with sterile water - maybe you can trigger fruiting. Maybe there is a plant hormone to do it. No harm in trying. I've had a culture growing for 10 days with H2O2 and no sign of contamination yet.
Title: Re: Giving it a try
Post by: adroit_synth on January 27, 2004, 09:27:00 PM
Well that is what I thought but almost everything I have said in this thread is rediculously funny or just plain absurd (or both) to most bees that have replied. After a while, one does get discouraged. I do need to read more and regretfully admit that I did not fully utilise the search engine before starting this thread. Give it some time but I will link to any relevant info. If you guys say that fruiting is the magical path to the magical alkaloids then ok, I will follow the yellow-brick road. SWIM will still conduct experiments however. Perhaps some other bees could suggest some variables to experiment with (keep it simple b/c SWIM is just getting the hang of this). He is eager to give back to the hive and at a loss of ways to do so. I look forward to further correspondence with you Mr. Bronson, detailing your progression with the liquid culture.

Title: I'll keep you posted
Post by: Mr_Bronson on January 27, 2004, 10:33:00 PM
I am still a mushroom novice, especially wrt submerged culture. I just picked up that the key is to get sclerota or fruiting bodies of some kind. Anything interesting happens and I'll post to the forum too,
Title: Micelia has useful quantities of alkaloids
Post by: Urupeh on January 28, 2004, 05:57:00 AM
Swim just eat the cakes and noticed that they where active, than he make another test, grow the micelia on wheat and wheat+rice, the experiment was carried in thinny polipropilene-plastic-bags whith only 50g of this substrata, everything was pressured-cooked nearly 20min. After the total colonization, the bags where open and the material was used in diverse recipes, the best was to ad dried grapes, nuts and honey, another salty recipe was only ad garlic, pepper and a little salt and fry them in butter, the meal provide a wery potent trip. Perhaps for extraction the micelia+substrata is a waste of solvents when you dont have  acess of bulk quantities, but only for personal use the "meal method" is very good. Swim tried to grow them in liquid (malt-extract +minerals)but the strains dont produce much biomass, swim thing the fungus like something "hard"to grow on...
Title: While I have no available refs on hand, I have
Post by: paranoid on January 29, 2004, 10:52:00 PM
While I have no available refs on hand, I have read that mycelium, although certainly on several order of magnitude less potent than basidiocarps, do indeed still produce a significant amount of alkaloids - however I'm not certain if it's primarily psilocin or psilocybin.  I'd definitely try it out at least - worst case scenario, you at least have a culture to innoculate a new attempt.

Title: Makeitworthwhile, choose a strong species
Post by: praeseodymium on January 30, 2004, 07:32:00 AM
According to Paul Stamets' excellent and beautifully illustrated Psilocybin Mushrooms of the World (IMHO Paul is the Shulgin of Psilocybes) the strongest species are, in order:

Azurescens   2.5  :-[
Baeocystis    1.6
Bohemica      1.5
Semilanceata 1.4
Cubensis       1.3
Cyanescens   1.3 :)

This is not as simple as it seems though: There are 3 main psychoactives: (1)psilocybin, (2)psilocin (1 with OH instead of phosphoryloxy) and (3) baeocystin.

The effects of each is different and the different trips thereby had are often attributed to this, as well as the fact that the actual concentration in a single strain will vary considerably depedning on substrate, conditions the above scale is only a guide. In particular note that these figures are from dried specimens, and unless care is excesised in the drying process a lot of goodies can be lost. Personally I bioassay a carpophore before making assesments about the potency of a particular flush, because I have encountered so much variation that one is really making educated guesses until one tastes..... I'll say this much though: I have handled shrooms so strong that I could actually feel the effects from the tiny amount absorbed through my skin, and while that's generally restricted to Azuresens, I have found cyanescens strong enough to do this as well. Conversely, one patch were less than half as strong as what was normally expected. This is typical of wild strains, and applies less to cultivars.

It also varies greatly between these species as to the proportions of each alkaloid.
Azurescens, by far my favourite (very clean, powerful) has over 80% of it's actives as psilocybin, and the remainder equal portions of psilocin and baeocystin.
Semilanceata has about the same proportion of psilcybbin, almost no psilocin, but a significant amount of baeocystin present.
Cubensis has almost equal proportions of psilocybin and psilocin and almost no baeocystin at all.
Cyanescens has about 65% psilocybin, 30% psilocin and 5% baeocystin.

Older mushrooms can give much less agreeable onsets than fresh, new ones, and leave you more exhausted and feeling trashed.

For home cultivation there are other factors to consider, and one important one is the aggressiveness of the mycelium of the cultivated strain. Cyanescens is probably the most forgiving in terms of tolerance of conditions; once it gets going this stuff is fast if he strain isn't too old- strains lose their growth aggression after a while, though this is less prevalent with mixed strains, as apposed to pure cultures.

Primordia formation- the precursor to pinheads- is stimulated by slightly different means in differnt shrooms. In general the CO2 concentration needs to be kept lower along with that of other metabolite gases, so the airflow is increased, the humidity kept around 95% especially throughout the pinning, and possibly a temperature drop is needed as well.

Mycelium growth is generally done in darkness; some species of mushroom require light to stimulate primordia development, so a 12 hour lighted cycle may also be necessary.
If you're serious about this try and get hold of Paul Stamets and J.S. Chilton's Musgroom Cultivator (which has been mentioned before)- it is one of the best books on growing mushrooms, and specifically includes several Psilocybe species.

I guess yu already know this but the greatest enemy of mushroom cultivation is contamination: you need to get good with sterile technique and don't gamble with contaminated cultures- it could be anything, including some very nasty bacteria.

Psilocybin is so similar to serotonin (once described as the reality filter neurotransmitter, although that's probably more a mainstream bastardisation than anything) that there have been times when I have wondered if the brain works better on a very small dose.
Probably that's just me being crazy. :P  

There's a story I was going to omit but I can't help myself now. Tee hee.

There was this one time when I was posessed by the peculiar notion that I should test this theory I had on the efficacy of psilocybin as a neurotransmitter- I was feeling pretty lethargic after a fairly long day but had to do an all-nighter, and I knew I had to be finished before 7am the next morning, and I was honestly ready for bed. So I stopped by a favourite spot on the way in to this particular locus of employ and under the half-moon and partly cloudy sky, ingested 4 lovely, juicy cyanescens. And went on to build a LAN in record time whilst tripping off my dial. What the fuck was I thinking? I'm not sure.... "This will be a great story I can tell my kids" perhaps?

Don't do this at home. I didn't  ;)

Title: While interesting, this is not exactly arcane...
Post by: paranoid on February 01, 2004, 01:08:00 AM
While interesting, this is not exactly arcane material.  It also is not especially relevant to the discussion at hand, in particular considering that the debate here is focussing on the level of alkaloid production in mycelial cultures of P. cubensis.

Title: Update
Post by: adroit_synth on February 03, 2004, 05:57:00 PM
The PF cakes are colonizing now. :)  :)  :)  Eighty-five is far superior to room temp as far as germination and colonization speed go, however with no quantitative test SWIM have nothing to say of the affect temperature has on alkaloid production (thinking maybe it is like shocking a cannabis plant, makes more cannabinoids). Looking into simple chromatography methods, but there is not enough hours in the day to progress as fast as I would like. Thats about it for now, kinda busy elsewhere so SWIM is gonna fruit these out and get back to ya with some experiments for the next batch.

Title: Likl off-topic but...
Post by: cublium on February 03, 2004, 10:30:00 PM
Do spores spores stay unharmed by sub zero C temperatures?Cub ordered some from US and wants to try some shroom growing.
Title: temperature
Post by: Urupeh on February 04, 2004, 10:56:00 AM
Swim like to make adventures to colecting psilo-shrooms in all over his coutry, and he notice (apart from the individual strain diferences)that in the regions of lower temperature and in the colder times of the year, the mushrooms apear to be stronger, long time ago in his dreams swim cultivate on every grain he could find and in compost made whith horse shit, and in the colder months the same strain apear to be more powerful in the desired effects. (just to clarify swim in his weird dreams was living in a country of tropical and subtropical clima). By experience swim thing it is more easy and funny to collect than to grow when the interrest focus on extraction, but growing is better if the intend of the experience is to eat the raw (or dreid)mushrooms, because sanitary and higienics play an important role.
Title: Spores and other stuff
Post by: Mr_Bronson on February 09, 2004, 06:19:00 PM
cublium: received wisdom on the preservation of hydrated spores (spore syringes) seems to be: do not freeze them (refrigerate only). I haven't tried freezing, but bacterial spores survive - why not fungal?

aroit_synth: the liquid medium became contaminated: smelt ike yeast and was bubbling like crazy. Was using honey amongst other things, so maybe I could have made some hallucinogenic mead. Used it to fertilise the compost heap. Will try again this weekend with more H2O2. I'm careful with sterility: bad luck or bad procedure somewhere.
Title: interesting
Post by: adroit_synth on February 11, 2004, 10:04:00 AM
Urupeh: The potency bit would correspond with my earlier post about my book that stated that they grow slower at room temp but produce more alkaloids.

Mr._Bronson: Sorry to hear about your contamination. Keep me updated on your progress.

Well as for the cakes, SLOW seems to be the word. On January 22, four jars were filled w/ substrate and sterilised (everything except for innoculated) and allowed to sit as an indicator of SWIM's sterile technique as this is his first time. Eight other jars were innculated. Since then NO contaminates have been spotted in any of the 12 jars. BUT only three of the eight innoculated have germinated.

Some thoughts: PF TEK just pretty much sucks because you cannot shake the substrate during colonization. Birdseed looks to be the most interesting now. Temp must remain constant!! Whatever temp it is! SWIM has had some problems with his heater getting unplugged and the temp rising too high when trying to bring it back to 85°F. In the last four days of constant temp he has seen more growth than the past two weeks.

Title: colonisation
Post by: Mr_Bronson on February 14, 2004, 06:01:00 PM
adroit: I have noticed the first mycelial threads within 3 days or so. Full colonisation takes approximately 1 fortnight. I am relatively inexperienced with this, but temperature seems the key: high 80's F for colonisation and high 70's for fruiting. For fruiting, humidity is important but varies between varieties. I only know the PF strain, which requires high 90's % humidity.

Also, the mycelium requires oxygen. I knock 5 holes in the lid of each jar for innoculation. Immediately after innoculation, I cover the holes with micropore surgical tape: this is breathable and seems to let enough O2 and CO2 to diffuse for rapid growth.

Another also, innoculation with live mycelium causes very rapid colonisation but seems to take longer before pinning occurs. I always wait for good pinning, then birth the medium and immerse in sterile water in a sealed container in the fridge for 24 hours before double ended casing in the fruiting chamber. This isn't large scale growing, just low maintenance hobby stuff. Cold water treatment and double ended casing increases the yield significantly. Double ended casing is placing the medium on an inverted lid filled with damp vermiculite and covering the top of the medium with 5mm or so of damp vermiculite.

More liquid medium growth results to come...

(What temperature units do you prefer? I use Celsius, but most people here are Yanks. Of course, to the purist, Kelvin is best. I can do Kelvin if you want. If we all used Kelvin and Pascals, I would be very happy indeed)
Title: You don't want to bother...
Post by: OrganicDreamer on February 14, 2004, 11:01:00 PM
Trying to get psilo. from myc.  I have a friend who has done extensive trials on this and the results are very inconsistent and the concentration is so much higher in the carpophores, it doesn't make sense to try to skip this step.  The first thing to learn in mushroom cultivation is patience.  I have been growing for a number of years and the temperature variance between colonization and fruiting can help increase alkaloids, and much is decided genetically.  I have over 30 strains of cubensis, and the several panaeolus, and other psilocybes.  Cubensis are easy but not as potent as some of the others.  After you get the PF tek down, you should start using a grain(I use popcorn kernels) and spawn to straw and possibly dung.  You only sterilize to make the spawn and the rest you pasteurize.  This will give the biggest yields and the largest mushrooms.  Check out Rodger Rabbit at Mycotopia, he has some very good strains that he has cloned and worked with to fully domesticate and select for the best traits.  He had a pic the otherday of mushrooms growing on a hemp bible, a stuffed animal, and even a big bag of White Widow(what a waste, but cool never the less).  Stop in and check it out.
Title: And coldshocking helps too.
Post by: flipper on February 15, 2004, 02:16:00 AM
And coldshocking helps too.
Title: Tryptone
Post by: DxRtUcG on March 13, 2004, 05:11:00 AM
I was just wondering if anyone has determined if the inclusion of tryptone in the growing medium promotes higher alkaloid production. Spric mentioned in

Post 72050 (missing)

(spric: "Re: cyanescens", General Discourse)
that he would include it in his culture plates but did not elaborate on the significance of this measure. So if anybody knows, thank you in advance... otherwise I guess I'll just have to see for myself.

Title: pf tek
Post by: obelisk on June 01, 2004, 07:23:00 AM
i have years of experience growing the pf strain and heres what i found after tweaking just about every condition possible.
nothing i tried seemed to increase potency reliably.  growth rates were variable slightly by adjusting temperature but it seemed more important was humidity. if the grain cakes or spawning media dried out, growth slowed.
  the mutant expressions definitly were the most potent high.
  the MeOH extractions of the mycelia produced a very dirty feeling high and gram for gram does not compare to the abhorts or the perfectly formed fruiting bodies.  in my opinion pulling from the culture cakes is not worth the effort.
  for high volume production i settled on spawning beds made from water bed frames sectioned into 4 areas.  i spawned with the spent grain cakes cased with peat moss mixed with calcium carbonate to control pH and covered with burlap to maintain as much humidity as possible. i did have some contamination problems probably due to my inexperience with pastuerizing my spawning media.
  the easiest method i worked out was to use alot of small tanks because its easier to maintain high humidity.  i followed pf's instructions and only changed one thing to make it easier.  i put 3 or 4 inches of peat moss in the bottom of my tanks and kept it wet.  humidity was easy to maintain this way.
  i stored spore syringes for two years with no loss of viability.  i stored dry spore prints for more than two years with no problems. 
  keep us informed on your progress.
Title: obelisk is the man
Post by: adroit_synth on September 23, 2004, 07:00:00 AM
Hello fellow bees! SWIM was without a working computer and merely signed on to read but not to post at other locations.

Anyway, after some time growing and much experimentation, SWIM can agrees with obelisk insofar as the humidity being the crucial factor. This would be analogous to water content in the rice cakes during colonisation. SWIM also concurs with obelisk's findings regarding the potency.

After many, many varied extractions, SWIM has abondoned his dream of obtaining relatively pure psilocybin relatively fast. The best bet is to fruit them out on a MASSIVE scale. As for the massive scale, SWIM has found that MANY small containers are FAR superior to any simple system that he could develop. This is due to the humidity as well as the fact that when a contaminate strikes, all other containers are spaired. The latter is also why culture dishes and no larger than half-pint jars have reigned supreme in SWIM's experience.

Some other grains show promise and perhaps a writeup on a favorite will come soon but for now the brown rice cakes prove to be the most efficient method with easily reproducable results. Hats of to Professor Fanaticus. That's all folks.

Title: I dont know why this thread is here, but there
Post by: midway on September 28, 2004, 11:42:00 PM
I dont know why this thread is here, but there is much to be learned on cultivation from other boards. I use white millet thats been boiled and steeped for 24 hours in pint or half pint jars...with fast cubensis strains i get full colonization in about two and a half weeks in an incubator keeping the jars at 85F. Transfer to a vermiculite or 50/50 peat moss casing for good fruiting results.
Title: Re: Psilocybin Production
Post by: sophie7 on January 29, 2017, 03:35:54 PM
Cubensys from animal is potent ahaha