Author Topic: 15 Micron Foil  (Read 1135 times)

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Boris_Silicunt

  • Guest
15 Micron Foil
« on: May 29, 2003, 04:18:00 AM »
Swim comes from a land that knows no Reynold's. Swim can get Al flashing, but doesn't have the stirring capacity to utilise it properly. Swim can, however, get 15 micron foil. Swim has heard that Reynolds is 30 micron.

Have any bees had success with 15 micron foil or can anyone advise Swim how to use his thinner foil.

Thanks

bones

  • Guest
having never used 15 micron foil i cant give...
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2003, 05:42:00 AM »
having never used 15 micron foil i cant give you specifics... perhaps someone else can... but its not going to be a huge problem.. .you have have to do some small scale test reactions to see what are the best rxn conditions but you can handle that.... heres the basics

remeber al foil is used because it contains .. you guessed it... aluminum :) .... now aluminum is a realllly reactive metal and likes to oxidize to Al2O3 .. this oxide is stable and has no reducing power :( .... you probably no this... i hope im not been to boring.... anyway... obviously the alumimum can only form oxides in the presence of air (well oxygen)... so therefore only the coating of the foil will be oxidezed... the interior will be Al metal... or whatever alloy it is... look at surface area.... thin foil has more surface area per unit mass and therefore has less unoxidized aluminum .... so ... theoretically at least you'll need to use extra mass of foil to make up the difference... i supose you could mathamatically determine roughly how much extra you needed by deducing the ratio of the surface areas... but i wouldnt bother...

the alternative is to use aluminum from pie trays or cans.. this is really thick ... ie more al metal.. but less surface area for reaction...resulting in slower reaction rates... yeilds may or may not be deminished... ive read that they are... but i dont know... you will need to leave the reaction considerably longer and id recomend reducing the ketone addition rate accordingly... any reduction in yields i believe would potentially be over come by the addition rate adjustment.

so i supose my responce is... i dont know... and im sure you knew already the mechanics of the reaction.... id recomend a few small trials...you will get some yeild.... but with trials you can possible improve :D

raffike

  • Guest
Pie pans yes,cans no because cans are also...
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2003, 06:05:00 AM »
Pie pans yes,cans no because cans are also coated with paint and inside,with plastic.Pie pans work wonderfully,raf has never used something else.Pie pans over here are 100 microns or 0,1 mm.


bones

  • Guest
yeah.. pie trays are my fav...
« Reply #3 on: May 29, 2003, 06:15:00 AM »
yeah.. pie trays are my fav... much easier than balling up 30,000 tonnes of foil....

Aids

  • Guest
Should be ok
« Reply #4 on: May 29, 2003, 11:55:00 PM »
Hey, i live in a land where there is no reynolds either.
I just went to supermaket with my micrometer and found the thickest shit i could (mono brand)about 20 micron from memory.  Im not getting fantastic yields (18g from 32g Ketone) but that my not be the foil.

Boris_Silicunt

  • Guest
Thanks
« Reply #5 on: May 30, 2003, 03:50:00 AM »
Thanks for the replies everyone.

Would these Pie Pans be crumpled up and how long would you let the reaction run?

bones

  • Guest
naa... id just cut em into say 1cm sq pieces...
« Reply #6 on: May 30, 2003, 08:18:00 AM »
naa... id just cut em into say 1cm sq pieces (im looking at my fingers right now trying to work out the right scale) ... perhaps a touch less than 1cm2 ... monitor the temp.. and add ketone appropiately.... leave the rxn till (a) its a room temp... plus... oh.. an hour or so...
(b) theres no other sign of reaction.... hopefully all your al will be in slurry by then...

to be honest im not sure how stable the freebase is... ive never left it sit around for days and days... many amines are pretty unstable and tend to oxidize in the air over a period of time... but on the other hand many amines are stable so...... but i dont believe that you have to be super fast complexing this particular product to the hcl salt... someone at a pub once told me (forget his name and appearence) that he leaves it over night...